1543369751 Q * any0n Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1543381267 M * Bertl_oO off to bed now ... have a good one everyone! 1543381269 N * Bertl_oO Bertl_zZ 1543382711 J * any0n ~k@9O6AAAUVP.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net 1543392923 J * hijacker ~nikolay@external.oldum.net 1543396079 Q * sutech 1543398218 M * GrembleBean Hi all 1543398555 M * GrembleBean I've been looking at compiling some new util-vserver packages for Debian Stretch 1543398690 M * GrembleBean and looking at what happened last time I tried to compile and run on systemD based hosts 1543398731 M * GrembleBean does anyone know if the pre3131 version of util-vserver works any better for systemD than pre3126? 1543398746 M * GrembleBean Should I still be looking at the AlexanderS patches? 1543398869 M * Guy- I have no idea, I shun systemd 1543400465 M * GrembleBean I think that might be the best approach in general, but I'd still like to know if any progress has been made. 1543400492 M * GrembleBean The packages I compile are for users with various different needs. 1543400788 N * Bertl_zZ Bertl 1543400793 M * Bertl morning folks! 1543400807 M * Bertl GrembleBean: you have to check with daniel_hozac, he might know :) 1543401130 M * GrembleBean He's not currently on the user list, but I'll try to catch him if he turns up 1543401271 M * GrembleBean oh, he's top of the userlist! 1543401292 M * GrembleBean hi daniel_hozac 1543404971 M * Bertl off for now ... bbl 1543404972 N * Bertl Bertl_oO 1543406244 M * AlexanderS GrembleBean: Yes, my patch should be required to "fix" the mount flags with a host running systemd. 1543406545 M * GrembleBean OK 1543406613 M * GrembleBean I'll see if it applies to 3131 easily 1543410726 Q * Aiken Remote host closed the connection 1543416622 M * obeardly GrembleBean: I would recommend looking at Devuan Linux. It's literally Debian but without systemd. 1543416678 M * obeardly they pull most of their packages directly from Debian repos, unless it requires systemd, then they either repackage without systemd or if it's not possible, blacklist. 1543416752 M * GrembleBean that doesn't in any way answer my question obeardly 1543416780 M * obeardly It was not an answer, it was a suggestion, a way to avoid systemd all together. 1543416824 M * GrembleBean I very much appreciate the work of Devuan and the other SystemD free projects 1543416887 M * obeardly I was recently working at a startup that does grocery e-commerce, and I migrated all their systems to v-server and Devuan. Very stable. 1543416897 M * GrembleBean However, if I want to remove SystemD from debian, I usually follow the three line instructions at http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Debian_Stretch 1543416945 M * GrembleBean obeardly, how many packages have Devuan fixed so they work without SystemD? 1543416981 M * obeardly I honestly don't know. I could find out if it's of importance. 1543416991 M * GrembleBean in my experience package are either so entrenched in SystemD they can't work without it OR they work with out it with no trouble, or perhaps the addition of an init script 1543417081 M * obeardly Just for my edification, do you have an example? 1543417138 M * GrembleBean For example, apache2 ships with /etc/init.d/ scripts, and then systemd uses it backwards compatibility to run it 1543417166 M * GrembleBean openvpn comes with systemd .service files, no init scripts, but it in no way needs systemD to run 1543417188 M * GrembleBean you can add your own /etc/init.d files for openvpn if you like 1543417205 M * obeardly I was actually talking about a package that can't work without systemd. 1543417210 M * GrembleBean Gnome 1543417237 M * GrembleBean LX 1543417240 M * GrembleBean LXC 1543417242 M * GrembleBean LXD 1543417316 M * Guy- GrembleBean: I think Devuan patches kde to work without systemd; with Debian and no systemd, suspend didn't work, but it works with Devuan 1543417328 M * GrembleBean https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages?page=1 1543417330 M * Guy- also they provide initscripts for zfsonlinux 1543417353 M * GrembleBean Seems they've done about 180 packages themselves 1543417373 M * GrembleBean and the banned packages are listed here: 1543417375 M * GrembleBean https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt 1543417564 M * GrembleBean it looks like they've patched gvfs which is great 1543417602 M * GrembleBean OK thanks obeardly and Guy- really looking like this project has progressed and has some worthwhile work. I'll at least install and evaluate. 1543417645 M * obeardly Yes, it's ready for the enterprise. I was running it on about 150 VMs on top of v-server at my last company. 1543417665 M * obeardly I literally worked myself out of a job. 1543421052 M * Hurga obeardly: how many guests per machine? 1543423142 M * obeardly Hurga: 20, give or take I think. It's been a few months. After I got everything setup and running smoothly, they laid me off claiming they couldn't afford me any longer. 1543423178 M * obeardly Bertl really held my hand as I was getting it setup. 1543423305 M * Hurga well, linux-vserver is low maintenance in my experience, but doing updates will still be a pain for someone not familiar with the setup. 1543423336 M * Hurga it was on Devuan? 1543423555 M * obeardly Hurga: Yes it was. 1543423607 M * Hurga cool. Are there packages? If not, you should use your experience to make some :) 1543423679 Q * hijacker Remote host closed the connection 1543424633 M * obeardly Hurga: Packages for v-server? 1543424655 M * obeardly The repo has v-server utils that are sufficient, even though a little old. 1543424736 M * obeardly I did roll a kernel that can be found here: https://aisleahead.com/downloads/vserver_kernels/ 1543424754 M * obeardly I'm actually surprised they haven't taken that down yet. 1543424761 M * obeardly They may not realize it's there. 1543424764 M * obeardly LOL 1543434982 M * Guy- :) 1543434990 J * Aiken ~Aiken@b951.h.jbmb.net 1543435009 M * Guy- obeardly: I don't expect you have any trouble finding a new job with this skillset, do you? 1543435028 M * obeardly Not too much. 1543435045 M * obeardly The hardest part is finding a real job that will let me work from my home in Tennessee 1543435057 M * obeardly Local jobs pay nothing 1543435077 M * obeardly But I'm working as a Sr. Linux and Automation Consultant on a government gig right now. 1543437865 Q * fstd_ dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * funnel dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * geb dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * menomc dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * DelTree_ dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * erratic dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * DoberMann dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * GrembleBean dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * Hurga dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * Jb_boin dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * _are_ dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * AlexanderS dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * arekm dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * yang dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * l0kit dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * transacid dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * Bertl_oO dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * bzed dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * padde dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * _Shiva__ dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * kolorafa_ dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * mcp dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * CcxWrk dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * Guy- dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * PowerKe dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * webhat dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * BWare dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * BlackPanx dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * karasz dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * FloodServ dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * romster_ dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * Aiken dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * jrklein dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * obeardly dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * jrayhawk dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * yang_ dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * gnarface dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * ntrs_ dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * dustinm` dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * any0n dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * gratuxri dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543437865 Q * zerick_ dacia.oftc.net charon.oftc.net 1543438142 J * Aiken ~Aiken@b951.h.jbmb.net 1543438142 J * any0n ~k@9O6AAAUVP.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net 1543438142 J * fstd_ ~fstd@xdsl-78-35-181-47.nc.de 1543438142 J * romster_ ~romster@158.140.215.184 1543438142 J * padde ~padde@patrick-nagel.net 1543438142 J * funnel ~funnel@0001c7d4.user.oftc.net 1543438142 J * geb ~geb@mars.gebura.eu.org 1543438142 J * menomc ~amery@kwa.jpi.io 1543438142 J * DelTree_ ~deplagne@2a00:c70:1:213:246:56:18:2 1543438142 J * _Shiva__ shiva@whatcha.looking.at 1543438142 J * kolorafa_ ~quassel@host03.itdesk.eu 1543438142 J * mcp ~mcp@wolk-project.de 1543438142 J * erratic erratic@206.125.168.69 1543438142 J * gnarface ~gnarface@108-227-52-42.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net 1543438142 J * DoberMann ~james@2a01:e35:8b44:84c0::2 1543438142 J * GrembleBean ~gremble@chrysanthemum.gremble.me.uk 1543438142 J * yang ~yang@yang.netrep.oftc.net 1543438142 J * Bertl_oO herbert@IRC.13thfloor.at 1543438142 J * Hurga ~hurga@000131c9.user.oftc.net 1543438142 F * charon.oftc.net +vvvv DoberMann GrembleBean yang Hurga 1543438142 J * l0kit ~1oxT@0001b54e.user.oftc.net 1543438142 J * Jb_boin ~dedior@proxad.eu 1543438142 J * transacid ~transacid@transacid.de 1543438142 J * _are_ ~quassel@2a01:238:4325:ca00:f065:c93c:f967:9285 1543438142 J * bzed ~bzed@bzed.netrep.oftc.net 1543438142 J * AlexanderS ~Alexander@home.zedat.fu-berlin.de 1543438142 J * arekm ~arekm@000161e0.user.oftc.net 1543438142 J * jrklein ~cloud@34.234.31.16 1543438142 J * obeardly ~obeardly@2603:3011:1661:0:b66d:83ff:feae:fbcd 1543438142 J * jrayhawk ~jrayhawk@nursie.omgwallhack.org 1543438142 J * CcxWrk ~ccx@asterix.te2000.cz 1543438142 J * yang_ ~yang@199.189.205.50 1543438142 J * ntrs_ ~ntrs@vault08.rosehosting.com 1543438142 J * Guy- ~korn@0002809d.user.oftc.net 1543438142 J * gratuxri ~gratuxri@104.207.150.19 1543438142 J * PowerKe ~tom@84-198-153-149.access.telenet.be 1543438142 J * webhat ~quassel@31.25.99.5 1543438142 J * dustinm` ~dustinm`@68.ip-149-56-14.net 1543438142 J * BWare ~itsme@31.25.99.5 1543438142 F * charon.oftc.net +vvvv l0kit Jb_boin transacid BWare 1543438142 J * BlackPanx ~black@93-103-10-34.static.t-2.net 1543438142 J * karasz ~karasz@00015555.user.oftc.net 1543438142 J * FloodServ services@services.oftc.net 1543438142 J * zerick_ ~zerick@irc.quassel.zerick.io 1543438142 F * charon.oftc.net +vvv BlackPanx karasz zerick_ 1543438145 F * ChanServ -o daniel_hozac 1543439543 M * Guy- obeardly: move to Bali, and local jobs in Tennessee will suddenly pay very well, if you can do them remotely Ñ= 1543439871 M * obeardly Guy-: Do you live in Bali? 1543439912 M * Guy- no 1543439944 M * Guy- I just know that the cost of living is pretty low there 1543439980 M * Guy- I live in an eastern european sh*thole that I wouldn't recommend moving to just now 1543439994 M * Guy- (even though the cost of living is probably lower than in Tennessee) 1543439995 M * obeardly Honestly, I'm very happy where I live 1543440009 M * Guy- in that case, ignore my advice :) 1543440013 M * obeardly Really, lower than Tennessee? I don't know about that. 1543440019 M * Guy- I was just kidding anyway 1543440033 M * Guy- obeardly: with all due respect, I think you have no idea 1543440045 M * obeardly Maybe no. 1543440047 M * obeardly not 1543440061 M * obeardly Most of Europe I've been to is ridiculously expensive though. 1543440083 M * Guy- obeardly: here in Hungary, I pay about $3.5 for a meal delivered to my door (if I order it a week in advance) 1543440101 M * Guy- a pizza delivery costs about $5-7 1543440113 M * obeardly Is that with tip? 1543440142 M * Guy- yes (while tipping is common, it's not mandatory like in the US, and tips are usually lower) 1543440177 M * Guy- (the delivery guys actually get enough wages to live on, if not very well, so it's not like in the US where if you don't tip them, they'll starve) 1543440198 M * Guy- a haircut costs about $7 1543440223 M * obeardly Well, that is very cost effective then, but not significantly less than here. 1543440261 M * Guy- you can buy a house in a good part of the capital for ~$150k 1543440263 M * obeardly Here, haircuts are $9 - $12 for men 1543440283 M * obeardly Where I live, most housing is under $100K 1543440300 M * Guy- but I guess that's not a major urban area? 1543440315 M * Guy- in the countryside, you can buy a house for ~$50k 1543440395 M * obeardly Urban area means many things in the US. I live in a city of 45,000, and our average house price is under $100,000, and we 20 minutes to Knoxville, which is a large metro area. 350K people 1543440436 M * obeardly But Tennessee is one of the 10 lowest cost states in the country 1543440451 M * Guy- a theatre ticket typically costs less than $10; a movie ticket less than $7; a monthly pass for mass transit ~$33 (and mass transit is actually usable; a single ride costs less than $1.5) 1543440480 M * obeardly We don't have mass transit. Too much of a sprawl factor. 1543440492 M * obeardly Movie tickets are are $9. 1543440498 M * obeardly So we're not that far off. 1543440530 M * Guy- OK, Budapest (the capital of Hungary) is a major European city of ~2 million; something with 45k residents is a small rural town here, 350k would be a respectable-sized city though 1543440590 M * Guy- in a rural town, you could absolutely buy a house for less than $100k (and it would be made of bricks and have heat insulation, not wood :P) 1543440617 M * Guy- but I understand Tennessee is relatively cheap for US standards, maybe not much more expensive than Hungary 1543440626 M * Guy- Bali, now; Bali is dirt cheap even for Hungarians 1543440639 M * Guy- (getting there is expensive, living there is a bargain) 1543440655 M * Guy- that's why people who go there on vacation typically stay several weeks 1543440656 M * obeardly Can you own guns in Bali? Or Hungary for that matter? I'm a competitive shooter. I can't leave my guns behind. 1543440680 M * Guy- I don't know about Bali; in Hungary, you can, but it's more strictly regulated than in the US 1543440708 M * obeardly Also, I wouldn't want to live too close. I enjoy driving my car. 1543440733 M * obeardly https://photos.app.goo.gl/nKww9ntf5SK9nMpi9 1543440759 M * Guy- that's probably more expensive here than there (I don't know about Bali); petrol is heavily taxed in Europe everywhere 1543440781 M * obeardly I'm aware. I just in Spain last year, and I'm going to Amsterdam in the spring. 1543440851 M * Guy- for the Devuan conference? 1543440856 M * obeardly Yep 1543440890 M * obeardly Going to go hangout with Jaromil and Katolaz in person for the first time. 1543440891 M * Guy- I probably won't, although it's relatively close 1543440999 M * obeardly Sorry to everyone else for spamming the channel. 1543441128 M * Bertl_oO no problem :) 1543441158 M * obeardly Hey Bertl, it's good to 'read' you. It's been a while. 1543441315 M * Bertl_oO indeed! 1543441358 M * Guy- obeardly: it's not like we were interrupting anything :) 1543441371 M * obeardly LOL True. 1543443006 Q * obeardly Quit: Leaving 1543448019 J * fstd ~fstd@xdsl-87-78-94-138.nc.de 1543448468 Q * fstd_ Ping timeout: 480 seconds