1491266763 Q * Aiken Remote host closed the connection
1491266891 J * Aiken ~Aiken@d63f.h.jbmb.net
1491268489 J * thierryp ~thierry@82.226.190.44
1491268530 M * misc-- hi I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on lxc/lxd vs vserver and why you would prefer one over the other?
1491268606 M * misc-- like, I've used vserver for a fairly long(ish) time and recently used lxd... it seemed ok, don't really like how it's not as isolated as vserver though (for example, running ps on the host gives you all guest processes as well)
1491268635 M * misc-- and also wondering if vserver is still in active development? I'm assuming it is... the faq says it is
1491268824 J * fstd_ ~fstd@x4db55229.dyn.telefonica.de
1491268831 Q * fstd Read error: Connection reset by peer
1491268840 N * fstd_ fstd
1491268974 Q * thierryp Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1491269020 M * Bertl misc--: development not much recently, at least not on the kernel side
1491269049 M * Bertl more kind of deep-freeze but maintained (i.e. patches get updated every now and then)
1491269059 M * misc-- ok fair enough
1491269082 M * Bertl differences: mainly virtualization features 
1491269156 M * misc-- I am just asking because I've always loved vserver but had to do a new setup with a client with multiple vms and I thought I'd give lxc a go, only really because there's no kernel patches required. But after setting it all up, seems to eat more memory and is slower but then again I'm using zfs backend where as on vserver it's ext4 etc. I just need to do some benchmarking. I still really like vserver
1491269196 M * misc-- (no kernel patches required and also seems to be a lot of buzz about it, so I thought why not)
1491269201 M * Bertl yeah, I think LXC is 'on the verge' to become useable
1491269213 M * misc-- yeah
1491269241 M * Bertl it still lacks certain virtualizations and security seems to be tricky
1491269311 M * Bertl but I'm confident, it will be a good replacement soon
1491269339 M * misc-- yeah there are a few differences that seemed strange to me, coming from vserver. Such as mapping IDs (I guess that's required for non privileged containers, but I don't care about that). Also showing processes on the host will show guest processes
1491269354 M * misc-- mmm ok
1491269402 M * Bertl yes, in theory you could only run init on the 'host' and put everything else (from the host) inside a namespace
1491269428 M * misc-- yep
1491269428 M * Bertl that would keep 'the host' (now in a namespace) clean
1491269667 M * misc-- oh ok I see. I don't really know too much about namespaces and cgroups. So does that mean vserver makes use of namespaces where as with lxc, not as much?
1491269769 M * misc-- I'm probably completely wrong...! I am going to read up on that
1491271209 Q * derjohn_mob Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1491271753 J * derjohn_mob ~aj@p2003008E6C2E0700BDA491D18FFE839F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de
1491271814 M * Bertl namespaces are used by Linux-VServer nowadays where it makes sense, LXC is based only on namespaces 
1491272415 M * misc-- oh right ok
1491275768 J * thierryp ~thierry@2a01:e35:2e2b:e2c0:d0e1:dfc7:ebd8:ec79
1491276323 Q * thierryp Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1491279507 J * thierryp ~thierry@2a01:e35:2e2b:e2c0:d0e1:dfc7:ebd8:ec79
1491279988 Q * thierryp Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1491285360 J * thierryp ~thierry@2a01:e35:2e2b:e2c0:d0e1:dfc7:ebd8:ec79
1491285421 Q * thierryp Remote host closed the connection
1491289474 J * nikolay ~nikolay@HOST.255.3.ixos.de
1491289695 J * thierryp ~thierry@zeta.inria.fr
1491290529 Q * derjohn_mob Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1491290613 M * Bertl  off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
1491290615 N * Bertl Bertl_zZ
1491291002 M * Ghislain the feature that make me use vserver is that i can isolate networking and not give the stack to the guest
1491291019 M * Ghislain i do not want to let the guest mess the network stack
1491291089 M * Ghislain but  systemd is a problem , it make vserver unusable for most of the linux distributions and this is an issue.
1491291181 M * daniel_hozac Debian works well without systemd still.
1491291220 M * Ghislain jessie yes but sid will be an issue and more and more mainteners test on systemd and forget all the rest
1491291227 M * daniel_hozac i think you should still be able to run your containers without the network management capabilities.
1491291248 M * daniel_hozac and just do the network setup on the host.
1491291256 M * daniel_hozac not sure how well that is supported in the tooling though.
1491291290 M * daniel_hozac i haven't looked at lxc for many years.
1491291296 M * Ghislain fromm all the tools and how too, all require the network space
1491291310 M * daniel_hozac yeah, you'd still be using a network namespace
1491291320 M * Ghislain they even setup tricky network firewall thing to get it "secured"
1491291324 M * daniel_hozac just configured on the host.
1491291333 M * Ghislain hum
1491291355 M * daniel_hozac but yeah, networking is more complex.
1491291445 M * Ghislain this is a violation of KISS principle :p
1491291465 M * daniel_hozac yep.
1491291486 M * Ghislain this is why i love the vserver system, it seems to be the most KISS compliant
1491291801 M * Ghislain while systemd offer some nice features the fact that it build  monolitic horror blob is not cool too me, it smells bad to me it try to do too many thing at once and this is not KISS compliant
1491291824 M * Ghislain the way things seems to go it not good for an old grumpy man like me :p
1491292496 Q * thierryp Remote host closed the connection
1491292927 J * thierryp ~thierry@zeta.inria.fr
1491292983 M * Guy- Ghislain: I'm using sid without systemd (with runit)
1491293037 M * Ghislain running a full email+web hosting server with a non default init system brings a lot of issue
1491293078 M * Ghislain dozen of services running all tested by the mass of people in systemd not in init is a risk and also a daily fight for nothing
1491293096 M * Ghislain i allready see a bunch of errors on jessie about missing systemd this and that
1491294122 M * Guy- Ghislain: I have no issues with runit on sid (on servers)
1491294132 M * Guy- on desktops, power management seems increasingly dependent on systemd
1491294214 M * Ghislain the issue is that a lots of thing have started to think that systemd is here and they do not care about other case and then you run into issues more and more. I will try to stay out of it the most i can but  this is a lost fight :)
1491294341 M * Guy- it's only lost if you give up :)
1491295454 M * Ghislain eheh
1491295463 M * Ghislain well i am still here ;p
1491295476 M * Ghislain who will bother Bertl if not !
1491295620 J * derjohn_mob ~aj@ip-109-84-3-239.web.vodafone.de
1491296331 Q * fstd Remote host closed the connection
1491296333 J * fstd ~fstd@x4db55229.dyn.telefonica.de
1491298117 Q * derjohn_mob Read error: Connection reset by peer
1491299254 Q * thierryp Remote host closed the connection
1491299315 J * thierryp ~thierry@zeta.inria.fr
1491299799 Q * thierryp Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1491300123 J * thierryp ~thierry@zeta.inria.fr
1491300542 Q * romster_ Quit: Leaving
1491302710 J * derjohn_mob ~aj@b2b-94-79-172-98.unitymedia.biz
1491309827 N * Bertl_zZ Bertl
1491309830 M * Bertl  back now ...
1491309883 M * Bertl Ghislain: glad that somebody takes the time to bother me :)
1491313388 Q * misc-- Read error: Connection reset by peer
1491313919 Q * Aiken Remote host closed the connection
1491314615 M * Ghislain ;p
1491315685 Q * nikolay Quit: Leaving
1491317641 Q * thierryp Remote host closed the connection
1491327402 M * Bertl  off for now ... bbl
1491327403 N * Bertl Bertl_oO
1491328648 M * Ghislain i sent my report on 4.1.39 on the list
1491328668 M * Ghislain kernel compile and boot with the function rename, testfs has some failures
1491329568 J * thierryp ~thierry@2a01:e35:2e2b:e2c0:7d78:a3d5:f674:1b
1491329586 Q * thierryp Remote host closed the connection
1491329587 J * thierryp ~thierry@2a01:e35:2e2b:e2c0:7d78:a3d5:f674:1b
1491336716 J * bonbons ~bonbons@2001:a18:20e:4401:84ce:4829:af0c:1da3
1491337756 J * Aiken ~Aiken@d63f.h.jbmb.net
1491338971 Q * bonbons Quit: Leaving
1491339463 Q * derjohn_mob Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1491346168 J * romster ~romster@202.168.100.149.dynamic.rev.eftel.com