1282264533 M * Bertl off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
1282264538 N * Bertl Bertl_zZ
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1282271516 J * imcsk8 ~ichavero@evdomip-27-70.iusacell.net
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1282276933 J * micah ~micah@micah.riseup.net
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1282277337 J * dannf ~dannf@utter.lackof.org
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1282282052 J * jkl jkl@c-71-196-138-95.hsd1.co.comcast.net
1282282271 M * mrkiko hi all
1282282821 Q * balbir_ Read error: Operation timed out
1282283788 J * sharkjaw ~gab@90.149.128.29
1282284416 J * petzsch ~markus@dslb-094-222-073-112.pools.arcor-ip.net
1282284445 J * ncopa ~ncopa@180.40.189.109.customer.cdi.no
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1282287298 J * derjohn_mob ~aj@213.238.45.2
1282287438 J * petzsch ~markus@dslb-094-222-073-112.pools.arcor-ip.net
1282288636 J * ntrs ~ntrs@77.28.21.26
1282288652 J * ghislain ~AQUEOS@adsl2.aqueos.com
1282288997 J * balbir_ ~balbir@122.248.161.59
1282289133 J * click click@ti0127a340-0012.bb.online.no
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1282291641 J * eyck ~eyck@nat08.nowanet.pl
1282292016 J * snooze_ ~o@1-1-4-40a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se
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1282292902 J * Piet ~Piet__@1RDAABQOO.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net
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1282295194 J * snooze ~o@1-1-4-40a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se
1282295527 M * ghislain hello all, is it me or mainline remove cpu limits from cgroups ?
1282295564 M * daniel_hozac the hard limits, or the shares?
1282295571 M * fLoo^ good morning folks
1282295574 M * fLoo^ hey daniel
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1282296327 J * snooze ~o@1-1-4-40a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se
1282296348 M * ghislain the hard ones :)
1282296354 M * ghislain cpu.shares seems still here
1282296406 M * ghislain i am using 2.6.33 right now not sure about later ones
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1282297771 J * geos_one ~chatzilla@chello084115149052.4.graz.surfer.at
1282298005 J * snooze ~o@1-1-4-40a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se
1282302599 J * kir ~kir@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru
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1282305454 J * orcish_mage ~zaphod828@209.pool85-53-217.dynamic.orange.es
1282305742 J * jrdnyquist ~jrdnyquis@slayer.caro.net
1282307557 N * BobR_oO BobR
1282308264 M * petzsch ot, just got that on twitter: Intel CEO: "We need antivirus, can someone buy me McAfee?" Few hours later: "Done." "Great, which version?" "Version ... ?"
1282308534 M * orcish_mage any folks on here who are knowledeable wrt vserver on Gentoo?
1282308613 M * orcish_mage especially how to patch a kernel to get the vserver patches + hardened pathces + gentoo's patches?
1282308748 M * orcish_mage ny one?
1282309892 J * manana ~mayday090@84.17.25.149
1282309951 Q * manana 
1282309991 J * manana ~mayday090@84.17.25.149
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1282311000 Q * sharkjaw Remote host closed the connection
1282311616 J * petzsch ~markus@dslb-094-222-073-112.pools.arcor-ip.net
1282311846 M * Chlorek orcish_mage: I can give you my kernel sources if you want vserver+grsec+pax+... I can't remind.
1282313014 N * Bertl_zZ Bertl
1282313020 M * Bertl morning folks!
1282313032 M * orcish_mage Hi Chlorek, thanks, but I'd rather know how to go about it myself, since I'd have to do it again in the future.
1282313058 M * orcish_mage I tried my hand at it about 3 years ago and gave up in the end.
1282313107 M * orcish_mage right now I'm looking into LXC. It seems to have Linus blessing since it is in the mainline kernel
1282313153 M * orcish_mage any reasons why I should stick with vserver? ;)
1282313179 M * Bertl well, if you are fine with what LXC provides, go ahead ...
1282313387 M * orcish_mage Idon't know LXC yet, and frankly, I'd like to stick with vserver... but, I'd like to run a hardened profile and vserver + hardened + gentoo's own patches does not exist. when I tried a few years ago to combine those patches I gave up.
1282313428 M * Bertl the best person to ask is probably Hollow (when he's around)
1282313440 Q * Chlorek Quit: -
1282313446 J * Chlorek cokolwiek@c.sed.pl
1282313468 M * orcish_mage Is he around on here ore on #gentoo?
1282313473 M * Bertl I don't know if a gentoo patched version exists at all, I know that harry maintains Linux-VServer + grsec patches, but that's about it
1282313483 M * Bertl should be on both I guess
1282313487 M * orcish_mage k
1282313527 M * orcish_mage no, no pathces for gentoo with both vserver and grsec and they have no intention to do so
1282313586 M * orcish_mage can I apply harry's patch to a higher kernel version, say 2.6.30.x?
1282313655 M * Bertl depends on how good you are :)
1282313687 M * Bertl usually it is adviseable to use the kernels the patches are made for, unless statet otherwise
1282313699 M * Bertl but you can bug harry to upload a new one :)
1282313711 M * orcish_mage like said, 3 years ago I threw in the towel :)
1282313712 M * Chlorek orcish_mage: don't complicate, just take my sources and then I can tell you where can you find higher versions if it will be to low for your needs
1282313739 M * Chlorek .31 btw
1282313778 M * orcish_mage Chlorek: you mean 2.6.31.x is the mainline kernel version of your patch set?
1282313797 M * Chlorek yes
1282313822 J * derjohn_mob aj@80.187.210.16
1282313841 M * orcish_mage splendid. was that just a matter of applying the pathces in the right order or did you have to manually merge a lot?
1282313899 M * Chlorek it's just ready to make
1282313988 M * Chlorek no ebuild if you are asking about it
1282314020 M * orcish_mage I meant when creating the kernel source tree, did you just apply patches or did you edit in stuff by hand?
1282314077 M * Chlorek I take prepared sources from other distro ;)
1282314107 M * orcish_mage which distro is that?
1282314111 M * Chlorek pld
1282314229 M * Bertl orcish_mage: pardon the question, but why is mainline not good enough?
1282314317 M * orcish_mage Bertl: where did I say that mainline is not good enough?
1282314347 M * orcish_mage on the contrary, I'd be happy if vserver WAS mainline
1282314377 M * Bertl well, Linux-VServer patches are against mainline and they use mainline functionality where available
1282314397 M * Bertl so picking e.g. 2.6.35.2 and the appropriate Linux-VServer patch will give you that
1282314410 M * orcish_mage oh, I see what you mean... 
1282314448 M * orcish_mage 1. - on the vserver wiki it says I need 2.6.22.x to patch.
1282314469 M * Bertl where?
1282314549 M * orcish_mage http://linux-vserver.org/Welcome_to_Linux-VServer.org look at the stable branch: 2.6.22.19
1282314655 M * Bertl and when you scroll down?
1282314702 M * orcish_mage 2. - Gentoo (which I'm using) applies it's own patches to mainline kernels. 
1282314725 M * orcish_mage when I scroll down it says experimental. its for a production system
1282314757 M * Bertl you won't find 'stable' classified patches for recent kernels
1282314783 M * Bertl regarding 2) so mainline is _not_ good enough then :)
1282314805 M * orcish_mage yea, on that note I probably better use *bsd anyway, :)
1282314852 M * orcish_mage indeed, I need mainline + grsecurity + vserver + gentoo's own patchset
1282314864 M * sid3windr + woahthere
1282314866 M * sid3windr :]
1282314898 M * orcish_mage or for that matter something that gives me the same functionality hence me looking onto LXC or OpenVZ
1282314913 M * orcish_mage I'm used to vserver though
1282314938 M * Bertl there are OVZ patches combined with grsec + gentoo ?
1282314960 M * orcish_mage Bertl: is that a question?
1282314966 M * Bertl yes
1282315012 M * orcish_mage I am, sadly, not aware of any. And I'm told that OpenVZ is harder to patch. Nicer documentation, though
1282315114 M * orcish_mage btw: how close is vserver to FreeBSD's jails?
1282315158 M * Bertl it is considered jails on steroids, i.e. you have the jail functionality plus a bunch of nice to have virtualizations and performance boosts
1282315224 M * Bertl (and most importantly it is for Linux :)
1282315239 M * orcish_mage bcause FreeBSD would fix that linux kernel nightmare *g*
1282315267 M * Bertl it seems that you are still not sure what you really want
1282315329 M * orcish_mage I know exactly what I want. Just no system is without (granted small) flaws. So right now I'm deciding which route to go.
1282315383 M * Bertl hmm, so care to elaborate what you want?
1282315394 M * orcish_mage I want: - container virtualization (or however you name it) like vserver, OpenVZ, LXC
1282315430 M * orcish_mage - good support for a union filesystem (unionfs or aufs or equiv.)
1282315481 Q * manana Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1282315494 M * orcish_mage - file systems that don't become awfully slow on boot up when they fsck > 2 TB
1282315602 M * orcish_mage - ease of maintenance, meaning no complicated kernel patching required everytime there is a security advisory or upgrade, decent distro management system
1282315667 M * orcish_mage Gentoo (with aufs and vserver) and FreeBSD (with ? and jails) are my favorites for now
1282315694 M * Bertl what do you want the unionfs/aufs for?
1282315751 M * orcish_mage I have some custom written software that uses union file systems
1282315807 M * orcish_mage forgot: - LVM snapshot functionality is also needed. FreeBSD does have that but it's less sound than LVM
1282315839 M * Bertl so unionfs is just for fun, or do you plan/want to use it for the guests?
1282315954 M * orcish_mage the software does not run on the guests but on the host and is needed for easy package building for gentoo
1282316037 M * Bertl i.c. well, adapting the unionfs/aufs2 to Linux-VServer (even make it Linux-VServer aware) is probably quite easy if you know what you are doing
1282316084 M * Bertl complicated kernel patching is probably not an issue if you pick and stay with a long term maintained mainline kernel, you can choose the distro independantly from that
1282316095 M * orcish_mage btw. getting aufs or unionfs going is not too hard. I'm more worried about gentoo's patches + grsec + vserver. especially when I have to maintain it on a prod. server
1282316178 M * Bertl you didn't mention grsec in your 'what I want' list, but as I said, you can usually get a patch from harry
1282316198 M * Bertl regarding the gentoo patches, no idea why you would want those
1282316206 M * orcish_mage iindeed, grsec is a nice to have
1282316270 M * orcish_mage I'm ok to go without grsec and just use plain OpenVZ sources from gentoo. I just thought I give it a try to combine these
1282316682 M * Bertl plain OVZ means mainline kernel + OVZ development patch packaged for gentoo, yes?
1282317005 M * orcish_mage it means mainline kernel + gentoo's patches + OpenVZ's patches. and it's provided by gentoo as openvz-sources. => no kernel maintenance for me.
1282317041 J * manana ~mayday090@84.17.25.149
1282317057 M * Bertl you sure about the gentoo patches?
1282317101 M * orcish_mage what do you mean? that the gentoo patches are in the ebuild or that I need gentoo's patches?
1282317110 M * Bertl (also note that there are vserver-sources as well :)
1282317153 M * Bertl I really doubt that the openvz-sources contain any gentoo specific patches
1282317281 M * Bertl http://packages.gentoo.org/package/sys-kernel/openvz-sources vs http://packages.gentoo.org/package/sys-kernel/vserver-sources
1282317759 M * Bertl daniel_hozac: what is your opinion on the VIRT_TIME feature, do we want/need it?
1282317806 M * Bertl haven't used/needed it for years now and it would require some redesign to work with 2.6.36 
1282317812 M * petzsch Bertl: is this like the Xen seperate wallclock feature?
1282317818 M * Bertl yep
1282317834 M * petzsch i personally don't see a need if the host clock is set up correctly and maybe ntp is running on the host
1282317846 M * petzsch just aditional ressources wasted if you maintain a clock for each guest
1282317855 M * orcish_mage Bertl: you might be right. No indication of gentoo's patchset in the openvz-sources ebuild. In the vserver ebuild, though, it mentions the gentoo patchset.
1282317985 M * petzsch setting local time zones per guest is allready possible. unless you want your clock to run wrong on purpose, i don't see any use case for it.
1282318037 M * Bertl well, there is one, if you want to 'cheat' on some license or run software which was designed for pre y2k use
1282318354 M * petzsch one other pro: if you emulate /dev/rtc you may have less work to do to get a bare metal server on linux-vserver
1282318484 M * petzsch or if one of your long term goals is to, have a common in vm experience among many virtualisation technologies
1282318491 J * ntrs ~ntrs@77.28.166.156
1282318536 M * Bertl well, rtc is a different story and seldom used
1282318556 M * Bertl i.e. we could probably block/ignore the rtc calls and make any distro happy
1282318581 M * Bertl what I'm talking about is gettimeofday and friends returning a delta to the host version
1282318912 Q * ryker__ Quit: Changing server
1282319041 N * BobR BobR_oO
1282319114 J * bonbons ~bonbons@2001:960:7ab:0:2c0:9fff:fe2d:39d
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1282321833 J * ryker ~ryker@199.117.46.145
1282321986 M * ryker i'm having trouble running net-snmp on the host and the guests.  It can't bind to port 161.  I don't see how to specify a listen address with snmp.  any ideas?  http://pastebin.org/622043
1282322058 M * ryker ah, nvm.
1282322066 M * ryker /etc/sysconfig/snmpd.options
1282322828 J * ktwilight_ ~keliew@91.176.192.177
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1282323822 M * daniel_hozac Bertl: honestly, i've never found a need for it either.
1282324040 J * bonbons ~bonbons@2001:960:7ab:0:2c0:9fff:fe2d:39d
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1282325827 J * derjohn_mob ~aj@tmo-099-245.customers.d1-online.com
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1282326981 N * Bertl Bertl_oO
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1282328563 J * imcsk8 ~ichavero@201.174.32.227
1282330848 J * ntrs_ ~ntrs@77.28.11.96
1282330912 J * petzsch ~markus@dslb-094-222-073-112.pools.arcor-ip.net
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1282333047 M * _Shiva_ kernel.org: 2.6.32.20: stable || 2.6.27.52: stable || 2.6.35.3: stable || 2.6.34.5: stable
1282333051 M * _Shiva_ :-)
1282333081 M * pmjdebruijn ah 2.6.27.52 got released :)
1282333095 M * pmjdebruijn actually checked this afternoon it was still -rc3 :)
1282333155 M * _Shiva_ pmjdebruijn: i've got an irc-bot reading RSS that tells me right away ;-)
1282333363 M * pmjdebruijn ah cool
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1282335206 J * C14r ~C14r@109.115.133.87
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1282335846 N * C14r_ C14r
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1282338056 J * cuba33ci ~cuba33ci@111-240-213-149.dynamic.hinet.net
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1282346042 J * manana ~mayday090@84.17.25.149
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1282347902 J * micah ~micah@micah.riseup.net