1254531173 M * Bertl off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
1254531177 N * Bertl Bertl_zZ
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1254534479 J * FloodServ services@services.oftc.net
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1254535236 J * derjohn_foo ~aj@e180195175.adsl.alicedsl.de
1254535637 J * FireEgl FireEgl@173-16-9-10.client.mchsi.com
1254535657 Q * derjohn_mob Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1254535772 Q * hparker Quit: Read error: 104 (Peer reset by connection)
1254536116 J * manana ~mayday090@84.17.25.144
1254536889 Q * sladen Read error: Connection reset by peer
1254545538 J * blues_ ~blues@dqq128.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl
1254545656 Q * blues Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1254550029 N * morrigan_zZ morrigan
1254555237 Q * zbyniu Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1254556629 J * bonbons ~bonbons@2001:960:7ab:0:2c0:9fff:fe2d:39d
1254557004 J * zbyniu zbyniu@ip-62.181.188.13.static.crowley.pl
1254558727 J * pmenier ~pmenier@ACaen-152-1-60-221.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr
1254558851 Q * fback synthon.oftc.net resistance.oftc.net
1254558851 Q * click synthon.oftc.net resistance.oftc.net
1254558851 Q * mnemoc synthon.oftc.net resistance.oftc.net
1254558851 Q * mEDI_S synthon.oftc.net resistance.oftc.net
1254558851 Q * nenolod synthon.oftc.net resistance.oftc.net
1254558851 Q * tam synthon.oftc.net resistance.oftc.net
1254558851 Q * gerrit synthon.oftc.net resistance.oftc.net
1254558860 J * mnemoc ~amery@shell.opensde.net
1254558860 J * fback fback@red.fback.net
1254558860 J * click click@ti0127a340-0204.bb.online.no
1254558860 J * mEDI_S ~medi@255.255.255.255.li
1254558860 J * nenolod ~nenolod@petrie.dereferenced.org
1254558860 J * tam ~tam@gw.nettam.com
1254558860 J * gerrit ~gerrit@ionscale.com
1254559329 N * Bertl_zZ Bertl
1254559333 M * Bertl morning folks!
1254559475 M * arachnist moin
1254559973 M * Bertl how's going?
1254561571 M * arachnist good, i think
1254561623 M * arachnist apart from the isp my company is using. one of our links down for almoast 9 hours now
1254561645 M * arachnist s/my company/the company i work for/
1254561677 M * arachnist not like it's overly critical, but 9 hours is quite a bit time
1254562040 M * Bertl hehe, last autumn we had a power outage for two and a half days :)
1254565153 M * Bertl off for now .. got some work to do ...
1254565159 N * Bertl Bertl_oO
1254566201 Q * manana Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1254569278 J * manana mayday_928@84.17.25.144
1254570976 J * doener_ ~doener@i59F5A090.versanet.de
1254571077 Q * doener Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1254572693 J * [Guy] ~korn@dzsessz.tmit.bme.hu
1254572719 J * Hurga nobody@dslb-088-078-062-088.pools.arcor-ip.net
1254572721 Q * Guy- Remote host closed the connection
1254572743 M * Hurga Hi!
1254572856 M * Hurga Just a quick question... what kernel/patch would you recommend for a production server currently?
1254573688 J * sladen ~paul@212.13.202.11
1254574078 J * geb ~geb@earth.gebura.eu.org
1254574494 Q * bonbons Quit: Leaving
1254574533 Q * manana Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1254575109 J * renihs ~philipp@vie-086-059-083-114.dsl.sil.at
1254575432 M * [Guy] Hurga: I'd go with 2.6.22.x plus the latest vs2.2 patch, provided you don't need any features newer than that
1254575437 N * [Guy] Guy-
1254575448 M * daniel_hozac no.
1254575453 M * daniel_hozac 2.6.27 at the least.
1254575565 M * Alteisen Hurga: why don't you use the vserver kernel your distro provides?
1254575605 M * Alteisen and if it work's, don't fix it... ;-)
1254575610 M * Guy- I don't know about other distributions, but Debian never quite managed to compile their vserver kernel with quite the settings I wanted
1254575610 M * Hurga thanks daniel_hozac, currently trying v2.6.27.35-vs2.3.0.36.6
1254575634 M * Hurga Alteisen: don't think there is one, Ubuntu 8.04 LTS
1254575670 M * Alteisen in ubuntu 8.04, there should be one
1254575718 M * daniel_hozac no...
1254575746 M * Hurga ubuntu is not really liked by the vserver developers ;)
1254575768 M * daniel_hozac Debian tends to be bad about doing it right.
1254575772 M * daniel_hozac Ubuntu is Debian made worse.
1254575772 J * manana mayday_730@84.17.25.144
1254575773 M * daniel_hozac so...
1254575851 M * Hurga I know. But at work I need a sane release schedule and support, and at home I'm lazy, so in both cases I need the LTS.
1254575863 M * Hurga And it worked for me so far.
1254575933 A * Hurga promises not to complain about things which are Ubuntu's fault ;)
1254576695 M * Alteisen Hurga: debian is the LTS version of ubuntu ;-)
1254576893 M * Alteisen i am still wondering, if there are any advantages using Ubuntu LTS vs. Debian stable on a server
1254576995 M * Alteisen i have tried Linux Mint 7 on my thinkpad t61 as a desktop linux for a day or two, and i liked it more than ubuntu.
1254577039 M * Alteisen but on my server, i would allways choose debian, perhaps with some special needs backports.
1254577090 J * ksn ~kuben@82.128.69.47
1254577112 Q * nenolod Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1254578406 J * nenolod ~nenolod@petrie.dereferenced.org
1254579919 J * yepsen ~yepsen@ip-95-222-78-232.unitymediagroup.de
1254579921 M * yepsen hi
1254579956 M * yepsen wtf? : http://nopaste.info/dd7c77ee12.html
1254580552 J * saulus ~saulus@c193115.adsl.hansenet.de
1254580580 Q * scientes Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1254583215 M * Hurga Alteisen: sorry, been AFK. - advantages using Ubuntu LTS vs. Debian stable on a server: At work, we run IBM DB2 and IBM supports Ubuntu. Other than that, I'm lazy so I prefer to run Ubuntu everywhere so that I don't have other distro-specific issues to fix.
1254583306 M * Alteisen Hurga: ok, good point
1254583356 M * Alteisen we have a debian centered linux consultant office in the direct neighborhood ;-)
1254583560 M * Hurga I'm able to fix most problems, but that doesn't mean that I like to have to to that :)
1254584601 M * daniel_hozac yepsen: what version of util-vserver, on what kernel?
1254585156 Q * pmenier Quit: Konversation terminated!
1254585979 J * jfs ~jfs@ip-80-236-249-8.dsl.scarlet.be
1254586145 J * hijacker_ ~hijacker@87-126-142-51.btc-net.bg
1254587479 Q * hijacker_ Remote host closed the connection
1254588273 M * renihs hmm is there anything to consider with vserver and kernel CONFIG_HZ? i am trying to figure what HZ i should set the vserver kernel on
1254591203 A * Alteisen has CONFIG_HZ=250
1254591253 M * daniel_hozac there's nothing out of the ordinary.
1254591312 M * Alteisen renihs: there is a help on CONFIG_HZ when configuring the kernel
1254592044 M * renihs daniel_hozac, thanks
1254592159 M * renihs Alteisen, i use 1000 for default, 300 for specific loadtargets, 100 if its going to run inside some vm (vmware/kvm/vbox etc)
1254592328 M * Alteisen i use that config_hz=250 on my server, that runs only as host for linux-vserver guests
1254592377 M * Alteisen once, when i configured the custom kernel for that machine, i have read the kernel help and to me 250 looked like that what i wanted
1254592635 M * Alteisen as it might be in the same direction - what is the recommendation for the "swappiness" kernel paramter? default is 60, but what would be your recommendation for a vserver host? specially, when that system runs with only 254 MB RAM?
1254593115 M * renihs seriously my recommendation would be to throw more ram at it, i dont like swaping and especially not overcommiting (always 2 for me)
1254593128 M * Alteisen renihs: lol, no way...
1254593129 M * renihs but i would not know a good recomendation though :(
1254593140 M * daniel_hozac RAM is dirt cheap these days.
1254593151 M * Alteisen it is an embedded board. save watts!
1254593164 M * daniel_hozac like, 2 GiB costs about as much as a case of beer.
1254593183 M * renihs Alteisen, then you should not need swaping or are you running lots of vservers on an embeded system? :p
1254593194 M * karasz ECC ram is not that cheap :-/
1254593215 M * Alteisen renihs: up to a max of 5, was my idea
1254593234 M * renihs karasz, since when? :)
1254593235 M * Alteisen only small apps, mainly file serving and www foo for my family
1254593255 M * Alteisen http://www.pcengines.ch/alix.htm
1254593263 M * Alteisen my one is the 2d3
1254593334 M * renihs i guess you will have to test abit :)
1254593354 M * renihs a general correct guess is above my abilities at least :)
1254593357 M * Alteisen =)
1254593375 M * Alteisen i have testet a lot, yet...
1254593397 M * daniel_hozac i don't really like abit :)
1254593404 M * Alteisen http://a.ctdo.de/wiki/doku.php?id=debian-alix-2c3 - warning, it's written in german
1254593421 M * renihs daniel_hozac, what doo you mean? 
1254593431 M * daniel_hozac motherboard manufacturer.
1254593436 M * renihs "abit"
1254593438 M * renihs grr
1254593441 M * daniel_hozac ;)
1254593456 M * renihs thought you said you like "alot" :)
1254593489 M * renihs dunno, havent touched "abit" since many years
1254593504 M * renihs werent that bad back then, though i prefered gigabyte or likes
1254593526 M * renihs in cheap low end that is
1254593593 A * Alteisen saves mainboard from the electronic waste in the company, mainly Fujitsu-Siemens Mainboards - work great!
1254593600 M * renihs hmm vserver guests with openrc? i dont read any problems in google hmm 
1254593607 M * Alteisen ok, that is also cheap and low cost
1254593609 M * renihs anyone using that yet?
1254595085 J * zbyniu_ ~zbyniu@ip-62.181.188.13.static.crowley.pl
1254595088 Q * zbyniu_ 
1254595462 Q * tokkee Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1254596031 J * tokkee ~tokkee@osprey.tokkee.org
1254597271 Q * geb Quit: /
1254600161 M * yepsen wtf? : http://nopaste.info/dd7c77ee12.html
1254600201 M * daniel_hozac yepsen: again, what util-vserver, on what kernel?
1254600974 N * Bertl_oO Bertl
1254600978 M * Bertl back now ...
1254600982 Q * derjohn_foo Remote host closed the connection
1254603151 Q * manana Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1254603659 J * derjohn_mob ~aj@p5B23C79E.dip.t-dialin.net
1254604834 M * derjohn_mob hi, what is delta-oomadj-feat01.diff ? is that a particular problem of current pre8/9 or referrs that to an long time existing problem?
1254604856 M * derjohn_mob and: it patches against a pre10 which is not downloadable yet?
1254604891 M * Bertl what does the '-feat01' part suggest to you? :)
1254605201 J * hparker ~hparker@2001:470:1f0f:32c:290:96ff:fe50:40fa
1254605942 M * Guy- derjohn_mob: fwiw, it seems to me that the patch tweaks the oom behaviour so that a guest can't make any of its own processes unkillable by the oom killer, oslt
1254606057 M * derjohn_mob I am asking because I had various problems with memory limits (hard + soft) 
1254606075 M * Bertl what kind of problems and what kernel/patch?
1254606109 M * derjohn_mob Bertl, it looks like you already have a pre10 on your local drive ... that the version you are working on?
1254606124 M * Bertl correct
1254606125 Q * hparker Quit: Read error: 104 (Peer reset by connection)
1254606130 J * hparker ~hparker@2001:470:1f0f:32c:290:96ff:fe50:40fa
1254606192 M * derjohn_mob hm, I cannot remember, but since 2-3 yr. I always wanted to protect the host against to memory-greedy guests.
1254606245 M * derjohn_mob but sometimes the systems reached a point at which I was not able to login to host anymore because ssh wasnt able to fork anymore
1254606282 M * Bertl sounds quite strange ... but 2-3 years doesn't sound like a recent kernel either :)
1254606372 M * derjohn_mob true ... but from time to time we have guests which hit the mem limit, but the process causing it i not gets killed. if you enter the vserver you cannot even "ps faxu", as you get an cannot allocate mem error.
1254606398 M * Bertl that sounds like a configuration issue
1254606407 M * derjohn_mob shouldn't the OOM kill process which eats up all the memory ?
1254606438 M * Bertl yes, which might not be the process which triggered it though :)
1254606441 M * derjohn_mob a config problem of the memory limit or my guest OS ?
1254606452 M * Bertl usually the OOM killer
1254606489 M * derjohn_mob pardon? I can confireure the OOM killer? how so?
1254606567 M * Guy- what I don't really get about the OOM killer is why it doesn't simply kill the process whose request for memory cannot be satisfied
1254606588 M * Bertl that is one configuration you can set
1254606602 M * Guy- using procfs tunables?
1254606610 M * Guy- I confess I never really looked at them
1254606639 M * Guy- aj, /proc/sys/vm/oom_kill_allocating_task
1254606669 M * derjohn_mob is it per guest ?
1254606680 J * Marillion ~dirk@hetzner4.127011.net
1254606691 M * Bertl nope
1254606890 M * derjohn_mob Guy-, http://www.mail-archive.com/git-commits-head@vger.kernel.org/msg26642.html <-- that doesnt sound like a good idea. I dont run an insane number of tasks. .)
1254606972 M * Guy- derjohn_mob: I took a different route to arrive at the conclusion that this might be good - namely that any other heuristic won't be perfect either, but this is at least straightforward :)
1254607015 M * Guy- btw, using swapd you can prevent oom conditions almost indefinitely at the cost of performance
1254607028 M * derjohn_mob Guy-, like Bruce Lee's fighting style: very directly :)
1254607105 M * derjohn_mob Guy-, if the systems begin to swap let's says several gigabytes actively then the I/O will drain the system's performance so much that you have to reset anyway :)
1254607308 M * Guy- that depends... if something is just leaking memory, it will probably just be swapped out, never in
1254607323 M * Bertl definitely, not probably :)
1254607422 M * Guy- with probability 1 then :)
1254607655 M * Bertl fair enough :)
1254607979 M * derjohn_mob Bertl, when do you expect a pre10 to be ready? Or is it worth patching all the features in on pre9 ?
1254608004 M * Bertl you can have one right now, if you like to test ...
1254608063 M * derjohn_mob I currently upload my debian package of 2.6.31.1 / pre8 to our companies repo ..
1254608109 M * Bertl is that a yes or no? :)
1254608140 M * derjohn_mob I could apply the patches myself, but if there are more -featXX some soon, my compile run might take longer than the release ... so it would make more sense to wait :)
1254608172 M * Bertl hmm, that sounds more like a yes to me, right? :)
1254608314 M * derjohn_mob well, let me rephrase the question: do you currently code more -feat ?
1254608344 M * Bertl yeah, kind of, but you can get a new prea, if you like ...
1254608347 M * derjohn_mob if no, then it's time for a -pre10 !
1254608352 M * Bertl *pre that is
1254608456 M * derjohn_mob not, then I happily wait until the feature-set is complete ... I dont want to distrub you coding-creativity :)
1254608497 M * derjohn_mob well, Ok, if you think its time for a -pre10 then upload it ...
1254608497 M * Guy- btw, I think I haven't said it lately, but it's still true: vserver is the single most useful kernel patch, at least to me :)
1254608515 M * derjohn_mob it'll test on my first testing stage: my personal notebook!
1254608525 M * Bertl Guy-: great! thanks, appreciate it!
1254608552 M * Guy- Bertl: well, I can't really help with development, so the least I can do is show my appreciation :)
1254608583 M * Guy- vserver also figures prominently in my university course on linux server administration, but I know you don't care about publicity
1254608673 M * Bertl derjohn_mob: check the usual place :)
1254608695 M * derjohn_mob Bertl, thx !
1254608742 M * Hurga Guy-: Well, since I don't really use any other kernel patches, it's the same for me. 
1254608826 M * Guy- but I'm sure you know quite a few, don't you?
1254608835 M * Guy- and yet, vserver is the only one you use
1254608895 M * Hurga indeed. standard kernels are "good enough" in most other regards.
1254608954 M * Hurga but vserver is the most efficient and lightweight virtualization i know.
1254608955 M * derjohn_mob Bertl, *LOL* ... and thx again for the -pre++ :)
1254609079 M * Marillion anybody know what the next RHEL Kernel use?
1254609200 M * derjohn_mob Marillion, Linux I guess :)
1254609239 M * derjohn_mob Marillion, but to be serious: I dunno, I just heared a new RHEL came out recently
1254609313 M * daniel_hozac RHEL 6 is probably unknown still.
1254609331 M * Marillion i mean not RHEL 5.4, i mean *6* ;)
1254609342 M * Marillion derjohn_mob: ^
1254609360 M * Marillion daniel_hozac: ah ok, thanks
1254609707 J * scientes ~scientes@174-21-189-103.tukw.qwest.net
1254611998 N * vServer_user vServer_User_sleepy
1254614131 Q * hparker Quit: Read error: 104 (Peer reset by connection)