1242000282 J * FireEgl FireEgl@173-16-9-10.client.mchsi.com
1242008414 J * ousado_ ~johnny@frnk-5f745ad2.pool.einsundeins.de
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1242017608 Q * nenolod Quit: more work on shitty network
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1242021750 J * harobed ~harobed@arl57-1-82-231-110-14.fbx.proxad.net
1242023436 J * nenolod nenolod@petrie.dereferenced.org
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1242025764 Q * geb Remote host closed the connection
1242025786 J * balbir_ ~balbir@59.145.136.1
1242026161 J * dna ~dna@186-204-103-86.dynamic.dsl.tng.de
1242026232 J * cga ~weechat@194.244.1.35
1242027310 J * SoulNet ~Soul@118.136.211.55
1242027380 Q * SoulNet 
1242028301 J * harobed ~harobed@pda57-1-82-231-115-1.fbx.proxad.net
1242028625 J * ktwilight__ ~ktwilight@244.13-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be
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1242029139 J * Sebboh ~hobbes@ip68-13-125-163.om.om.cox.net
1242029306 M * Sebboh Are there plans to stick vserver in the main kernel tree?
1242029377 M * nox afaik Bertl_zZ gave up 3 years ago :)
1242029412 M * nox ... and loves the freedom being outside of vanilla :)
1242029532 M * Sebboh It didn't occur to me before upgrading the host that software wouldn't be available for it.
1242030206 J * BenG ~bengreen@94-169-110-10.cable.ubr22.aztw.blueyonder.co.uk
1242030988 J * z0d ~z0d@artifact.hu
1242030990 M * z0d Hello
1242031259 Q * ctrix Read error: Connection reset by peer
1242031267 J * ctrix ~8__D@81-174-32-147.static.ngi.it
1242031577 N * Bertl_zZ Bertl
1242031581 M * Bertl morning folks!
1242031610 M * Bertl Sebboh: why not available?
1242031759 M * nox morning Bertl 
1242031884 J * gnuk ~F404ror@pla93-3-82-240-11-251.fbx.proxad.net
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1242031981 J * docelic ~docelic@78.134.195.15
1242032437 J * ghislainocfs2 ~Ghislain@adsl2.aqueos.com
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1242036008 J * mEDI_S ~medi@snipah.com
1242036079 J * thierryp ~thierry@zanzibar.inria.fr
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1242042836 J * BenG ~bengreen@94-169-110-10.cable.ubr22.aztw.blueyonder.co.uk
1242043308 J * linux225 ~me@cpe-65-31-19-208.insight.res.rr.com
1242043327 M * linux225 What can I do about iptables etc?
1242043337 M * linux225 linux vserver uses virtulization right?
1242043346 M * linux225 is there any workaround for this yet?
1242043352 M * Bertl nope, Linux-VServer uses isolation
1242043368 M * Bertl and yep, you have a bunch of options, depending on what you want to achieve
1242043385 M * linux225 hopefully so a user can set there own rules?
1242043408 M * Bertl for that, you need to get a very recent kernel and use network namespaces
1242043485 M * linux225 Could you give me a rundown on how that will work?
1242043540 M * Bertl network namespaces allow you to get 'virtual' ethernet devices per namespace, and combine them on the host
1242043570 M * Bertl http://lxc.sourceforge.net/network.php
1242043589 M * Bertl you can simply unshare the namespace with util-vserver
1242043592 M * linux225 Does this hurt performance that much?
1242043612 M * Bertl you basically traverse two network stacks (or the same network stack twice)
1242043625 M * linux225 i see 
1242043629 M * Bertl but it depends on what kind of load you have
1242043644 M * linux225 I mean how much of a percent does it really hurt you? 10 percent ish?
1242043650 M * Bertl by default, Linux-VServer uses IP isolation, which is extremely lightweight
1242043661 M * linux225 I know that is one of those questions not easily anwsered but yea
1242043673 M * Bertl if you do a lot of network traffic, it will hurt :)
1242043692 M * linux225 yea but a few customers honestly do need to set there iptables
1242043698 M * linux225 i used openvz for a little while 
1242043706 M * linux225 they say it only hurts 1-3 percent 
1242043716 M * linux225 Not sure if thats true or not though
1242043766 M * Bertl well, the numbers are fictional, if you have e.g. a web server for a typical low usage site, I doubt you will detect any overhead
1242043780 M * linux225 not to really talk about openvz but is vservers ram system better then that? 
1242043789 M * Bertl if you run some kind of p2p software with a lot of connections going on, it will definitly be measureable
1242043790 M * linux225 i can;t for the life of me figure out how openvz handles ram
1242043797 M * linux225 its like it cheats people i think 
1242043826 M * Bertl in what way?
1242043844 M * linux225 like ram usage is ram usage in openvz from what i found out 
1242043862 M * linux225 a mysql server can use 110 mb but really  its only like 10-20 mb 
1242043871 M * linux225 it just allocates it all for you
1242043888 M * linux225 in openvz it does not see it that way and jsut says its all used 
1242043899 M * linux225 then on the host you can see thats not the case 
1242043899 M * Bertl aha, well, in Linux-VServer you have RSS and VM accounting and limits
1242043916 M * linux225 do you know what im saying though?
1242043923 M * Bertl the RSS is memory actually used, while the VM/AS is the 'reservation' made
1242043932 M * linux225 no wonder some providers sell 1 gb for 30.00 
1242043942 M * linux225 they actually might only be using say 300 possibly 
1242043963 M * linux225 its almost like you are getting cheated with that system or i am misunderstanding it 
1242043968 M * Bertl e.g. when you run java vm, it will 'reserve' 2GB or so memory but only use a fracon
1242043978 M * Bertl *fraction of that
1242043983 M * linux225 yea
1242044000 M * linux225 but in openvz for thr the guest i think it does not matter
1242044002 M * Bertl the 2GB will show up in the VM accounting, but not in the RSS
1242044007 M * linux225 reserved or not it counts it as used 
1242044041 M * linux225 yea
1242044060 M * linux225 maybe thats how openvz works as well it just does not have swap/cache 
1242044081 M * linux225 seems to me it rreats even allocated memory not being used as used ram 
1242044104 M * Bertl maybe, probably the OVZ folks know more there :)
1242044114 M * linux225 Don't think so ;) 
1242044145 M * linux225 oh yea dont try to compile something in an openvz thing since there is no cache / swap it makes it almsot impossible 
1242044165 M * Bertl I promise I wont :)
1242044192 M * linux225 yea i spent a week with that thing
1242044197 M * linux225 i guess a week wasted
1242044226 M * Bertl if you know now what you want (or do not want) then it wasn't entirely wasted ...
1242044236 M * linux225 if its treating swap and cache as just used ram i dont see how that is possible maybe that is why all iopenvz providers provide big crazy *burst* 
1242044268 M * linux225 what do you like better xen or kvm Bert?
1242044283 M * Bertl I prefer and use kvm, mainly for kernel testing
1242044290 M * linux225 ah yea
1242044321 M * linux225 not sure which one to use there either 
1242044329 M * linux225 for that kind of virtulization 
1242044483 M * linux225 has that namespace way been widely tested and works pretty well Bert?
1242044492 M * linux225 i mean what if its a pretty high traffic website hmm
1242044532 M * linux225 Openvz says they use the same technology in that way 2 layer, says its only a 1-3 percent loss but i dunno maybe its just a wrong statistic 
1242044590 M * Bertl it is pretty new, but a mainline feature (kernel.org) so I guess it had some testing by now
1242044612 M * linux225 ah
1242044622 M * linux225 so you think its ok for production?
1242044636 M * linux225 i would say that way with vserver is better then openvz 
1242044649 M * linux225 i mean this way i get good ram hehe 
1242044663 M * Bertl give it a try on a test system, if it works as you expect, put it in production (that's what I'd do)
1242044681 M * linux225 yea but this one server does get alot of traffic
1242044691 M * linux225 40 request per sec simple http request though
1242044696 M * linux225 so maybe it does not matter
1242045016 M * linux225 when they are in the vserver  they can set iptables the same way as they would if it was there server? right? ther is no other workarounds to do it?
1242045075 M * Bertl I would expect so, that is the purpose of the network namespaces
1242045083 M * linux225 ok 
1242045086 M * linux225 just checking 
1242045095 A * linux225 dedicated another week for vserver
1242045105 M * linux225 dedicates*
1242045785 J * cluk ~cluk@p5B17F8A6.dip.t-dialin.net
1242046737 Q * cluk Quit: Ex-Chat
1242048246 M * Bertl off for now .. bbl
1242048251 N * Bertl Bertl_oO
1242048307 Q * BenG Quit: I Leave
1242052486 J * Piet ~piet@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net
1242052522 J * dowdle ~dowdle@scott.coe.montana.edu
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1242056737 J * imcsk8 ~ichavero@nat.ti.uach.mx
1242056944 N * Bertl_oO Bertl
1242056963 M * Bertl Hollow: ping? who is maintaining the mailing list/web interface?
1242057124 Q * thierryp Quit: ciao folks
1242057194 Q * cga Quit: got a DELL??? update you BIOS with http://github.com/cga/dellbiosupdate.sh/tree/master ;)
1242059429 J * uva bno@118-160-170-139.dynamic.hinet.net
1242060138 M * Bertl translocating now .. bbl
1242060142 N * Bertl Bertl_oO
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1242061674 J * geb ~geb@AOrleans-253-1-24-227.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr
1242061708 M * geb hi
1242063077 J * cluk ~cluk@p5B17F8A6.dip.t-dialin.net
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1242064254 J * BenG ~bengreen@94-169-110-10.cable.ubr22.aztw.blueyonder.co.uk
1242064293 Q * BenG 
1242064485 J * doener_ ~doener@i59F5A867.versanet.de
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1242066456 J * DLange ~DLange@dlange.user.oftc.net
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1242070494 J * Sebboh- ~hobbes@ip68-13-125-163.om.om.cox.net
1242070591 M * Sebboh- Hi. I'm getting an error, I googled around for it and found that someone reported the exact same issue and described it very well here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=524377 ..so, how do I manually fix that?
1242070630 M * Sebboh- I suppose that I just need to find a copy of the missing file and put it in place. Where would I find it?
1242071690 J * tobbez ~tobbez@h-60-98.A163.priv.bahnhof.se
1242071768 Q * harobed Quit: Ex-Chat
1242072083 M * tobbez I'm currently running a debian guest, but all applications (evolution, epiphany etc) believes there is no connectivity (and therefore launches in offline mode). Is there a known way around this?
1242072179 M * cluk Sebboh-: Couldn't you simply copy it from a running real server?
1242072207 M * cluk or extract it from the package?
1242072656 M * daniel_hozac Sebboh-: there's no file missing, you ust have to add the requisite symlinks.
1242072710 M * daniel_hozac tobbez: how do they determine that they're supposed to run in offline mode?
1242072741 M * tobbez daniel_hozac: i'm not sure of that, unfortunately
1242072828 M * daniel_hozac tobbez: so you might want to ask those folks. :-)
1242073049 M * tobbez ah, uninstalling network-manager solved it :)
1242076020 Q * cga Quit: got a DELL??? update you BIOS with http://github.com/cga/dellbiosupdate.sh/tree/master ;)
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1242076511 J * thierryp ~thierry@home.parmentelat.net
1242076517 Q * thierryp 
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1242078563 Q * dna Quit: Verlassend
1242082839 J * ghislainocfs21 ~Ghislain@adsl2.aqueos.com
1242083065 Q * phedny reticulum.oftc.net plasma.oftc.net
1242083065 Q * nou reticulum.oftc.net plasma.oftc.net
1242083069 J * snooze_ ~o@1-1-4-40a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se
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1242083171 J * phedny ~mark@phedny.vps.van-cuijk.nl
1242083171 J * nou Chaton@causse.larzac.fr.eu.org
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1242083380 J * snooze ~o@1-1-4-40a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se
1242083419 J * geb_ ~geb@AOrleans-253-1-24-227.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr
1242083481 Q * geb_ 
1242083796 J * saulus_ ~saulus@c150084.adsl.hansenet.de
1242083803 Q * saulus Read error: Connection reset by peer
1242083808 N * saulus_ SauLus
1242085093 J * MooingLemur ~troy@shells195.pinchaser.com
1242086057 M * Bertl_oO off to bed now .. have a good one everyone!
1242086062 N * Bertl_oO Bertl_zZ
1242086158 M * Sebboh- daniel_hozac, symlink to what? ...Even if I have /etc/defaults/rcS in my host machine, why would I want my guest to execute the host's startup config?
1242086234 M * Sebboh- minus s.
1242086378 J * imcsk8 ~ichavero@189.155.75.144