1199577676 Q * jescheng Remote host closed the connection 1199577696 J * jescheng ~jescheng@proxy-sjc-2.cisco.com 1199578881 Q * yang Read error: Connection reset by peer 1199579150 J * yang ~yang@cpe-212-18-59-220.dynamic.amis.net 1199579282 Q * Piet Remote host closed the connection 1199579384 J * Piet ~piet@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net 1199580613 M * meandtheshel1 Bertl: got a minute? 1199580618 M * meandtheshel1 or two :) 1199580624 M * Bertl sure 1199580706 M * meandtheshel1 ok fine - I was wondering if you can maybe make a few comparisions from your POV regarding Linux-VServer vs. OpenVZ resp. Virtuozzo ... for example Virtualized Networkstack 1199580741 M * meandtheshel1 from a users POV I'd like to have one ... from a perfomance POV it might be bad to have one - you agree? 1199580822 M * meandtheshel1 or let me rephrase - what's the reason Linux-VServer has no virtualized network stack? 1199580829 M * meandtheshel1 performance only? 1199580831 M * Bertl yep, I think while a virtual network stack might have some advantages if you want to simulate or test layer2 stuff (or iptables or things like that) 1199580848 M * meandtheshel1 ok - yes 1199580875 M * Bertl from the performance PoV it's currently a no-no and, if you look at OVZ, you also see that it isn't really trivial to get it right 1199580895 M * Bertl i.e. the virtual network stack behaves slightly different than the real Linux stack 1199580900 M * daniel_hozac IMHO it's more of a bitch to maintain too. 1199580932 M * meandtheshel1 I see - but then, it's perfectly usable ... I mean the ovz virtualized network stack - yes? 1199580935 M * Bertl the general aim of Linux-VServer is to get the best Isolation with the least amount of changes (and thus overhead) 1199580959 M * Bertl meandtheshel1: as is the Linux-VServer network isolation :) 1199581002 M * meandtheshel1 sure - I just thinking, for example for firewalling most folks want to run their stuff within every virtual server so ... 1199581090 Q * Julius Remote host closed the connection 1199581105 M * meandtheshel1 I think the Linux-VServer approach (doing firewalling on the host) is fine if you own a machine and all vps's belong to you as well but in case you do webhosting and you sell vps's it's not so good resp. ovz might be a better choice here - no? 1199581117 M * meandtheshel1 just from a usability POV ... 1199581226 M * Bertl nothing really Linux-VServer related, we already proposed several solutions for that which are at least as good as a virtual network stack 1199581255 M * Bertl but the actual interest in this is not that high, otherwise it would have been implemented already 1199581268 M * meandtheshel1 into mainline - yes? 1199581292 M * meandtheshel1 well, sure ... 1199581305 M * Bertl not necessarily, for example the netlink relay was discussed several times, and there is a 'working prototype' available for 'relaying' iptables rules 1199581322 M * meandtheshel1 ok - I see 1199581358 M * meandtheshel1 so, what do you tell someone who wants to run a physical box and sell vps's? 1199581362 M * Bertl I think a virtual network stack ala OVZ is doing more harm than actual benefit 1199581378 M * meandtheshel1 interesting - how so? 1199581380 M * Bertl there is no real point in doing e.g. firewalling inside a guest 1199581436 M * Bertl for example, what would be the benefit to block scanning attacks for guest A but not for guest B? 1199581467 M * Bertl or, the other way round, what is the benefit of doing IP blacklisting for each guest separately? 1199581487 M * meandtheshel1 sure - that's right but then what if guest A wants to have port 25 open but guest B not - how do you do it with Linux-VServer ? 1199581506 M * Bertl the same you do it with Linux right now? 1199581521 M * meandtheshel1 well, you go for the IP but that has to be done from the guy controlling the host 1199581531 M * meandtheshel1 yes, as for non-Linux-VServer setups 1199581580 M * Bertl not necessarily, there are many solutions for this 1199581586 M * meandtheshel1 I am thinking about the administrative work - vps owners have to ask the person who controls the host to put this rule into place - no? 1199581594 M * Bertl no 1199581625 M * meandtheshel1 hm .... but firewalling is done on the host so how does it work? 1199581684 M * Bertl a) tcpwrappers b) iptables relay c) web interface ... 1199581723 M * Bertl note: the purpose of OS level isolation (or jailing) is not to provide virtual machines 1199581724 A * meandtheshel1 has definitely been away from Linux-VServer to long 1199581742 M * meandtheshel1 ok - yes, that's correct 1199581743 M * Bertl if you want that, go for something like Xen, you are definitely better of with that 1199581770 M * Bertl and also note: regarding completeness, Xen is far superior to OVZ for example 1199581823 M * meandtheshel1 hm ... ok but for enterprise setups and support (docu etc.), when I look at Xen, that's a nightmare but Virtuozzo is quite good I'd say 1199581878 M * Bertl and what is the cost ratio between Xen and Virtuozzo? 1199581913 M * Bertl besides the fact that folks like Novell or IBM provide perfectly fine hypervisor solutons (turnkey) 1199581914 M * meandtheshel1 ok - good catch but mostly money isn't the issue with enterprise setups but maintainability and time-to-market 1199581968 M * meandtheshel1 also, from a personal view, I find Xen way harder to get started with as for example with Linux-VServer resp. ovz 1199581973 M * Bertl feel free to spend your money on Virtuozzo(tm), if it suits your needs and fits your marketing plan :) 1199582037 M * meandtheshel1 well, actually, I am looking for the best solution to fit my case ... of course, if it doesn't cost anything that would be best 1199582048 M * Bertl okay, what is your case then? 1199582080 M * meandtheshel1 I am just evaluating the current situation - trying to fine out what might be best for my/our situation 1199582104 M * meandtheshel1 at my current job folks already use Virtuozzo so ... 1199582116 M * Bertl that's fine, but I doubt I can recommend anything without knowing what your situation is :) 1199582158 M * Bertl I wouldn't use an axe to cut the fingernails ... 1199582166 M * meandtheshel1 sure - actually we're looking a solution to not just virtualize servers but also desktops ... 1199582215 M * meandtheshel1 by desktops I mean the developer machines to try different linux distributions 1199582224 M * Bertl paint me a picture what you want to do, and I can tell you if it can be done with Linux-VServer and what I would use to do it 1199582309 M * meandtheshel1 the whole server infrastructure is debian based so that's a pro for Linux-VServer already (packages) 1199582347 M * meandtheshel1 more than that, we're running common stuff (mail systems, web, etc,) on those servers 1199582381 M * meandtheshel1 so actually _any_ of the afore mentioned solutions will do 1199582413 M * meandtheshel1 it's mainly about maintainability and how much time we need to spend to get certain things done 1199582473 M * meandtheshel1 bottom line is - I wanted to talk to you in order to have some arguments against Virtuozzo :) 1199582570 M * Bertl well, if you don't care about proprietory stuff on your machines (think backdoors and such), and you don't care about spending a lot of money, then Virtuozzo is probably a good choice (you get good support if you pay enough) 1199582571 M * meandtheshel1 ok so that's for the network stack - now, what about the fact that resource limits can be set on-line (without the need to reboot a vps) with ovz - that's something good 1199582597 Q * Piet Quit: Piet 1199582629 M * meandtheshel1 hell, no there's just one thing that scare me more than backdoors - clowns ... those fellows scare the heck outa me ;-] 1199582640 M * Bertl definitely good, but Linux-VServer does that since the beginning? 1199582673 M * Bertl http://linux-vserver.org/Resource_Limits 1199582687 M * Bertl all those limits can be changed at runtime of course 1199582695 M * meandtheshel1 sec ... I show you some article which is then crap 1199582713 M * daniel_hozac there are only a couple of flags which you'd need to restart the guest for. 1199582715 M * meandtheshel1 http://www.fry-it.com/at/linux-virtualization-openvz-vs-vserver 1199582775 M * Bertl yes, that's mostly crap 1199582802 M * meandtheshel1 see, that's why I love talking to you folks! 1199582826 M * Bertl probably an expert with 20+ years java experience :) 1199582862 M * meandtheshel1 so, there is absolutely no difference in this regard (changing resource limits for vps during runtime) between ovz and Linux-VServer - yes? 1199582881 M * Bertl not that I know of 1199582894 M * meandtheshel1 terrific ... 1199582926 M * meandtheshel1 what about that praised live migration feature that ovz claims to have? 1199582942 M * Bertl this article reminds me of the Windows(tm) vs Linux(R) comparisons :) 1199582949 M * meandtheshel1 I mean I actually already did something like that with Linux-VServer already 1199582956 M * meandtheshel1 lol 1199583005 M * Bertl well, under certain circumstances, the OVZ live migration (when it works) is a nice show feature, we didn't find any good reason to implement it though 1199583025 M * meandtheshel1 ok - I see 1199583028 J * yarihm ~yarihm@196-46-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch 1199583090 M * Bertl poor guy (article) he didn't even get payed :) 1199583099 M * meandtheshel1 :) 1199583136 M * meandtheshel1 what about the statement about the amount of RAM you see from within a vps ... that's total crap - yes? 1199583156 M * daniel_hozac just set the virt_mem flag. 1199583183 M * meandtheshel1 first paragrap resource management 1199583183 M * Bertl yep 1199583188 M * meandtheshel1 daniel_hozac: right - I remember that 1199583233 M * meandtheshel1 ok - what else we got here with this article which is a false statement 1199583330 M * meandtheshel1 oh - I love his final conclusion ... 1199583364 M * meandtheshel1 he's wrong in both statements about Linux-VServer I'd say 1199583382 M * daniel_hozac well, networking is not virtualized. 1199583465 M * meandtheshel1 yes - that's of course correct 1199583473 M * meandtheshel1 I meant this "Vserver loses two points in my eyes on resource management (restarts needed and network not virtualized at all) and another on lack of resource virtualization (load, memory consumption figures are useless)." 1199583495 M * meandtheshel1 ok - yes the network stack part is in there too ... 1199583507 M * meandtheshel1 but no reboot is needed as we figured 1199583580 M * meandtheshel1 What I think is a great plus from my POV (I am with Debian) is the fact the Linux-VServer is packaged with Debian - with ovz I just get the kernel source 1199583587 M * meandtheshel1 patch that is 1199583791 M * meandtheshel1 there he is again http://www.fry-it.com/at/the-virtues-of-os-level-virtualization 1199583926 M * meandtheshel1 ok - thanks folks for having this dialog - it's already almost 3am and so am off to bed :) 1199583936 M * Bertl the mentioned VZFS is similar to the unification Linux-VServer uses, just more complicated 1199583944 M * meandtheshel1 I see 1199583957 M * Bertl note: this is only for Virtuozzo(tm) not for OVZ 1199583999 M * Bertl 'OpenVZ manages to stay in close proximity of native performance' .. lol 1199584003 M * meandtheshel1 I see - so that's the higer density thing http://wiki.openvz.org/Virtuozzo (at the top) 1199584025 M * meandtheshel1 really - it's way slower than Linux-VServer - yes? 1199584036 M * meandtheshel1 resp. native perfomance 1199584039 M * Bertl no, I don't think so, at least not much :) 1199584073 M * Bertl but if you look at the bloated code/patches ... you might get an idea 1199584074 M * meandtheshel1 ok - so you were joking about the way how the sentence was written :) 1199584085 M * meandtheshel1 ok - I see 1199584235 M * meandtheshel1 if you have any other things that might cross you mind just drop them in ... I'll read up tomorrow morning ... /me off to bed now - as I said, thank you two for telling me :) 1199584246 M * Bertl you're welcome! 1199584650 M * Bertl daniel_hozac: have you read the email from Mike Wang? any ideas what this could be? 1199584761 M * daniel_hozac my first guess is namespaces. 1199584781 M * Bertl /usr on separate partition? 1199584798 M * daniel_hozac well, rather, /usr being a relative symlink. 1199584820 M * daniel_hozac i think 0.30.212 did the right thing in namespace cleanup... 1199584870 M * Bertl should a tool upgrade help there? 1199584951 M * daniel_hozac $__SBINDIR is definitely in the list of paths not to unmount, even in 0.30.212. 1199585086 J * comritesecurity ~comritese@c-69-248-187-168.hsd1.pa.comcast.net 1199585125 M * daniel_hozac no need to reply, i guess :) 1199585153 M * Bertl welcome comritesecurity! 1199585159 M * comritesecurity thx 1199585178 M * Bertl I think, we were just talking about your issues :) 1199585184 M * comritesecurity really? 1199585191 M * comritesecurity that sounds great 1199585203 M * daniel_hozac what is /usr in your setup? 1199585225 M * comritesecurity what do you mean? sorry I am a newbie 1199585241 M * daniel_hozac ls -l /usr; grep /usr /proc/mounts 1199585286 M * comritesecurity mailsrv:~# ls -l /usr; grep /usr /proc/mounts 1199585287 M * comritesecurity lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 Dec 8 2006 /usr -> /sysdata/usr 1199585331 M * daniel_hozac and /sysdata is a separate mount point? 1199585336 M * comritesecurity yah 1199585343 Q * yarihm Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199585344 M * comritesecurity I have a symbol link to /usr 1199585378 M * daniel_hozac so i think an upgrade to recent utils (from backports.org) should fix your issue. 1199585394 M * comritesecurity oh 1199585456 M * comritesecurity mailsrv:/# dpkg -l | grep vserver 1199585456 M * comritesecurity ii linux-image-2.6-vserver-686 2.6.18+6etch2 Linux kernel 2.6 image on PPro/Celeron/PII/P 1199585456 M * comritesecurity ii linux-image-2.6.18-5-vserver-686 2.6.18.dfsg.1-17 Linux 2.6.18 image on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/ 1199585456 M * comritesecurity ii linux-image-vserver-686 2.6.18+6etch2 Linux kernel image on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/ 1199585457 M * comritesecurity ii util-vserver 0.30.212-1 user-space tools for Linux-VServer virtual p 1199585460 M * comritesecurity ii vserver-debiantools 0.3.4 Tools to manage debian virtual servers 1199585462 M * Bertl (please use paste.linux-vserver.org for everything longer than 3 lines) 1199585475 M * comritesecurity ok 1199585488 M * comritesecurity you mean util-vserver 1199585500 M * Bertl and add backports to your repositories and/or use the package from there (manually) 1199585527 M * comritesecurity ok, thanks I will try 1199586652 M * comritesecurity I have util-vserver 0.30.214-5~bpo40+2 , 1199586660 M * comritesecurity but it is the same, 1199586667 M * comritesecurity after I upgrade it 1199586696 M * comritesecurity /usr/lib/util-vserver/functions: line 509: /usr/sbin/vserver-info: No such file or directory 1199586720 M * daniel_hozac what does readlink -f /usr/sbin return on your system? 1199586747 M * comritesecurity it is: /sysdata/usr/sbin 1199586761 M * daniel_hozac how about (set -P; cd /usr/sbin; pwd)? 1199586785 M * comritesecurity it is: /sysdata/usr/sbin 1199586871 M * daniel_hozac oh, it appears the symlink thing is only in 0.30.215... 1199586890 M * daniel_hozac so you'll have to add /sysdata to /etc/vservers/.defaults/namespace-cleanup-skip. 1199586891 M * comritesecurity oh 1199587010 M * comritesecurity great, it is working!!! thanks a lot 1199589059 Q * comritesecurity Quit: Leaving 1199589573 Q * mire Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199591310 J * Aiken ~james@ppp121-45-246-228.lns2.bne4.internode.on.net 1199592040 J * lilalinux ~plasma@dslb-084-058-230-157.pools.arcor-ip.net 1199592453 Q * derjohn Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199592463 Q * lilalinux_ Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199592499 J * derjohn ~derjohn@dslb-084-058-230-157.pools.arcor-ip.net 1199593636 J * Infinito argos@201-3-20-29.gnace701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br 1199594606 Q * Infinito Quit: Quitte 1199597408 M * Bertl okay, off to bed now ... have a good one everyone! 1199597416 N * Bertl Bertl_zZ 1199597560 J * marv marv@modemcable100.38-57-74.mc.videotron.ca 1199597563 N * marv _marv 1199597773 M * _marv http://pastebin.ca/843517 1199598358 M * _marv mmm help? i'm kinda stuck 1199599201 Q * jescheng Remote host closed the connection 1199599212 J * jescheng ~jescheng@proxy-sjc-2.cisco.com 1199601249 Q * mick_work Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199601295 Q * quasisane Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199601845 J * mick_work ~clamwin@adsl-068-157-089-099.sip.bct.bellsouth.net 1199603087 J * DLange ~dlange@p57A31728.dip0.t-ipconnect.de 1199604145 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199605283 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199606498 J * JonB ~NoSuchUse@kg0-128.kollegiegaarden.dk 1199607019 J * quasisane ~sanep@c-76-118-191-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net 1199607844 M * daniel_hozac _marv: very few kernels support --remove. use --set, which works on all kernels. 1199608209 M * _marv how does --set go? 1199608256 M * daniel_hozac what? 1199608284 M * _marv better q: u have a good doc on the "naddress" command? 1199608293 M * daniel_hozac naddress --help 1199608337 M * _marv haha k trail&error i guess 1199608341 M * _marv thx 1199608657 M * _marv hurm 1199608684 M * _marv # naddress --set --nid web0 --ip 208.98.59.132/32 brd 208.98.59.255 -/- naddress: vc_net_remove(): Function not implemented 1199608754 M * _marv oh rong past i had --bcast... same result thow 1199608999 M * daniel_hozac kernel and utils? 1199609054 M * _marv http://pastebin.ca/843607 thats vserver-info 1199609082 M * _marv u want the kernel config also? 1199609167 M * _marv http://pastebin.ca/843608 kernel config 1199609229 M * daniel_hozac yeah, you've got CONFIG_IPV6 disabled... hmm. 1199609245 M * _marv there ipv4 1199609309 M * daniel_hozac it's definitely a bug somewhere, i'm just not sure where... 1199609334 M * daniel_hozac it feels like a kernel bug. 1199609339 M * _marv crap so i'm stuck rebooting clients to remove ip's :/ 1199609358 M * _marv i can add fine thow 1199609381 M * _marv u want some stuff off my setup? 1199609399 M * daniel_hozac well, technically, naddress --set --nid ... should remove them all, so you should be able to do --add after that. 1199609432 M * _marv so juste "naddress --set --nid " as command? 1199609443 M * daniel_hozac right, which will fail like above. 1199609455 M * daniel_hozac then, even though it failed, you'll be able to do --add. 1199609488 M * _marv yeah atleast i can add :) 1199609489 M * _marv haha 1199609521 M * _marv # naddress --set --nid web0 -/- naddress: vc_net_remove(): Function not implemented 1199609549 M * _marv weeee gotta luv developpement... althow this is by far the best system i've tried... 1199609563 M * daniel_hozac enable IPv6 and things will work as expected ;) 1199609587 M * _marv haha yeah will do next time i reboot the server 1199609597 M * _marv witch is hummm hopefully never 1199611569 Q * JonB Quit: This computer has gone to sleep 1199612683 J * bonbons ~bonbons@2001:960:7ab:0:2c0:9fff:fe2d:39d 1199613966 J * JonB ~NoSuchUse@130.227.63.19 1199614952 J * derjohn_mobil ~aj@e180206180.adsl.alicedsl.de 1199616425 M * JonB vserver stop seems to do nothing? 1199616619 Q * Aiken Remote host closed the connection 1199617210 Q * DLange Quit: Bye, bye. Hasta luego. 1199617621 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, it stop the vserver with the name "". 1199617640 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, with vserver-stat you get a list of running ones.. 1199617708 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: i did that, but it did not stop 1199617728 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: in the end i entered it, and found a hanging apache start, so i killed that and tried another shutdown 1199617940 Q * balbir__ Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199618137 J * ema ~ema@rtfm.galliera.it 1199618293 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, hm, usually after some timeout (30 secs??) every process is killed. 1199618304 M * derjohn_mobil (even if it hangs). 1199618341 M * derjohn_mobil I dunno what happens if some process isnt killable (uninterutable sleep or such ...) 1199618355 M * derjohn_mobil that can even occur with processes that are not within vserver. 1199618366 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, try to vserver --debug stop 1199618478 J * Infinito argos@201-3-20-29.gnace701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br 1199618606 J * balbir__ ~balbir@122.167.107.1 1199618705 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: will try that next time 1199618706 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: i do not understand why we allow a uninteruptable sleep 1199618706 M * JonB if i want to KILL a process, it should fsck'ing die 1199618710 M * JonB just like eject on a cd/dvd should mean EJECT, as fast as a 3,5" floppy 1199618758 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, cool 3.5" floppy fly out the box like a toast :) 1199618774 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, but really, there are process states, that make reboot necessary. 1199618791 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: there should not be 1199618805 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, I think if a process runs or triggers a kernel thread that does not stop (due to a bug ...) 1199618833 M * JonB cant the kernel thread be another process? 1199618841 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, yes, in an ideal world .... I would now enjoy the sun and beautiful grrls would bring me some cool drinks .. 1199618860 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: what, you mean you dont live in Bahamas? 1199618864 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, I am not a kernel hacker. I just can report my observations ... 1199618881 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: neither am i, i just would like everything to be killable 1199618885 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, sadly (or luckily) not. Internet is not very fast there, or ? 1199618892 M * JonB aka any userland process 1199618906 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: i dont know how fast it is, i'm in Copenhagen, Denmark 1199618922 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, yes, unless it sticked its fingers deep into the kernel (sound not very scientific :)) 1199618955 J * mates007 ~Miranda@cz-br-axmanova.balnet.eu 1199618970 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, i think you already tried "vkill -9" th eoffending pid ? 1199618997 M * derjohn_mobil (or pgid) 1199619018 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: yes, though i did a vserver enter first 1199619030 M * JonB and then i did a ps aux to find out what the problem was 1199619056 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, what was the state of the pid ? 1199619104 M * derjohn_mobil (vkill works without entering the vserver - I dont know if it has more permission, like capabilties 1199619107 M * derjohn_mobil but I think so 1199619126 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: i think the pid was running "normally" 1199619140 M * JonB it was probably a dns error 1199619145 M * derjohn_mobil think? think different ;) 1199619148 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, what ? 1199619151 M * derjohn_mobil DNS ??? 1199619178 M * derjohn_mobil unlikely .. 1199619190 M * derjohn_mobil what VS version are you using ? 1199619213 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: apache was hanging 1199619222 M * JonB or rather 1199619225 M * JonB not starting up 1199619231 M * JonB after i killed it using normal kill -9 1199619241 M * JonB then a vserver stop worked fine 1199619255 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, maybe you didnt wait long enough ? 1199619260 M * JonB and i think apache was not starting because the dns server was not up jet 1199619261 M * JonB maybe 1199619274 M * JonB we had a power outage yesterday 1199619284 M * derjohn_mobil if something is not killable you get with vserver stop an output of the process tree, that was not stoppable. 1199619305 M * derjohn_mobil Power outage ? in the DC ? 1199619336 M * JonB yeah, fire in some transformer 1199619357 M * JonB i did not get any output with my first vserver stop 1199619372 M * JonB i called the power company, they said it would take min 4 hours 1199619376 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, if it occurs next time, have some patience. 1199619394 M * JonB so i shut down everything and came in today to make sure everything is working 1199619398 M * derjohn_mobil 4 h down or did the usv habdle that ? 1199619407 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: i am an impatient guy 1199619409 M * JonB the usv? 1199619420 M * derjohn_mobil maybe you FS did get a prob? 1199619431 M * derjohn_mobil ahhhhh USV is german for UPS ... sorry ;) 1199619438 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: no, all the other vservers seemed to run fine 1199619445 M * JonB no, my UPS did not last 4 hours 1199619468 M * JonB i got an alert, and called the power company because there was nothing at their homepage 1199619490 M * JonB they said that they just got an alert about a fire in a transformer 1199619494 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, back luck on sunday. consider moving to bahamas ;) 1199619502 M * JonB it took out a whole city block 1199619512 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, you are from .us ? 1199619515 M * JonB derjohn_mobil: i am not sure the power supply is better down there 1199619517 M * JonB no, denmark 1199619552 M * JonB so, after they told me that i told all servers to shut down, and then i could only wait until the UPS for the router and switches can out of juice 1199619579 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, well, that sounds bad ... so the severs are in you own data centre ? 1199619591 M * JonB yes, it's just for an office 1199619608 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, well, be luckly that nothing worse happend ... :) 1199619612 M * derjohn_mobil *happy 1199619613 M * JonB yeah 1199619651 M * JonB i did do a disasterrecovery trial exercise just before xmas 1199619669 M * JonB it took half a week to restore the system to a workable state 1199619692 M * JonB 1 day to syncronize the raid, and 2 days to restore from backup 1199619722 M * JonB so, now we have a hotspare machine offsite which can be installed pretty quickly 1199619727 M * JonB besides the regular backup 1199619738 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, sounds like a good plan ;) 1199619759 A * derjohn_mobil now takes a walk with the penguins .. eh ... dogs .... 1199619765 M * JonB have fun 1199619768 Q * Infinito Quit: Quitte 1199619784 M * derjohn_mobil JonB, have fun, use vserver ! :) 1199619787 M * JonB i have to test my UPS setup anyway, i am not sure that it powers off fast enough 1199619997 J * Julius ~julius@p57B2444E.dip.t-dialin.net 1199620186 J * yarihm ~yarihm@196-46-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch 1199621222 N * Bertl_zZ Bertl 1199621233 M * Bertl morning folks! 1199621616 M * virtuoso_ In a way. :) 1199623776 M * derjohn_mobil Bertl, mornin' 1199623925 M * derjohn_mobil Bertl, I just saw: http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Experimental/patch-2.6.24-rc6-vs2.2.0.5.0.4.diff 1199623991 M * derjohn_mobil in a way that ridiculous counting ;) 1199624016 M * Bertl oops, got that one wrong, sorry 1199624029 M * Bertl should have been patch-2.6.24-rc6-vs2.2.0.5.0.4-pre.diff 1199624044 M * virtuoso_ :) 1199624049 M * derjohn_mobil is there any progress in devel version for .24 ? or: can i patch in that 127.0.0.1 thing from devel in ? 1199624053 M * derjohn_mobil *lol* 1199624054 M * derjohn_mobil :) 1199624056 M * derjohn_mobil kk 1199624065 M * virtuoso_ Shouldn't there be stages of 'pre'? Like pre0, pre1 etc. 1199624095 M * Bertl I tend to put them in the version number before that 1199624113 M * Bertl derjohn_mobil: there will be a devel version soon, don't worry 1199624358 Q * Julius Quit: Verlassend 1199624457 M * derjohn_mobil Bertl, yay! :) 1199624458 J * Julius ~julius@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net 1199624521 Q * Julius 1199624526 J * Piet ~piet@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net 1199624527 J * mire ~mire@141-170-222-85.adsl.verat.net 1199624529 J * Julius ~julius@p57B2444E.dip.t-dialin.net 1199624585 M * Bertl okay, have some more work to do (regarding relocation), bbl 1199624600 N * Bertl Bertl_oO 1199625740 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199625755 Q * mates007 Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org 1199625786 J * mates007 ~Miranda@cz-br-axmanova.balnet.eu 1199626501 J * ViRUS ~mp@p57A6F8AB.dip.t-dialin.net 1199626777 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199628073 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199629188 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199629529 J * doener_ ~doener@i577BB7E9.versanet.de 1199629944 Q * doener Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199631053 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199631469 J * dna ~dna@18-210-dsl.kielnet.net 1199632043 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199632397 J * rgl ~rgl@84.90.10.245 1199632402 M * rgl moooo! 1199632467 M * dowdle apt-get moo 1199632470 M * Bertl_oO mo mo 1199632483 M * dowdle Or is it apt-get install moo? 1199632618 J * DLange ~dlange@p57A33845.dip0.t-ipconnect.de 1199632709 M * ema dowdle: The former 1199633970 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199634084 Q * ViRUS Quit: Leaving 1199634627 J * virtuoso ~s0t0na@ppp91-122-25-186.pppoe.avangard-dsl.ru 1199634627 Q * virtuoso_ Read error: Connection reset by peer 1199634659 Q * harry Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199635129 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199636200 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199636435 Q * mire Quit: Leaving 1199636955 Q * Daniel_Moss 1199637281 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199637838 J * pmenier ~pmenier@ACaen-152-1-54-157.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr 1199638352 J * mire ~mire@141-170-222-85.adsl.verat.net 1199638408 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199639397 Q * JonB Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199639681 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199640165 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199641231 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199641516 M * pmenier Hello 1199641532 M * pmenier daniel_hozac: ping ? 1199641629 M * pmenier delta-prochide-fix01.diff seems not to be included in last patch-2.6.24-rc6-vs2.2.0.5.0.4-pre.diff 1199641654 M * Bertl_oO yep, possible 1199641666 M * Bertl_oO there will be a new one soon 1199641904 M * _marv hey Bertl_oO :) 1199642004 J * JonB ~NoSuchUse@kg0-224.kollegiegaarden.dk 1199642218 Q * Julius Remote host closed the connection 1199642229 J * Julius ~julius@p57B2444E.dip.t-dialin.net 1199642401 Q * jescheng Remote host closed the connection 1199642412 J * jescheng ~jescheng@proxy-sjc-2.cisco.com 1199642433 Q * mates007 Read error: Connection reset by peer 1199642918 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199643874 Q * JonB Quit: This computer has gone to sleep 1199644006 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199645323 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199646094 Q * pmenier Quit: Konversation terminated! 1199646412 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199647166 J * ftx ~ftx@dslb-084-062-232-114.pools.arcor-ip.net 1199647263 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199648290 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199648296 J * Aiken ~james@ppp59-167-99-254.lns3.bne1.internode.on.net 1199648552 Q * mire Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199648583 Q * yarihm Quit: This computer has gone to sleep 1199648602 Q * DLange Quit: Bye, bye. Hasta luego. 1199648858 J * JonB ~NoSuchUse@kg0-128.kollegiegaarden.dk 1199649110 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199649404 J * mire ~mire@86-170-222-85.adsl.verat.net 1199650211 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199650662 J * yarihm ~yarihm@196-46-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch 1199650997 Q * JonB Quit: This computer has gone to sleep 1199651263 Q * derjohn_mobil Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199652385 J * JonB ~NoSuchUse@kg0-128.kollegiegaarden.dk 1199653118 Q * PowerKe Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199653324 Q * ftx Remote host closed the connection 1199653864 J * derjohn_mobil ~aj@p5B23EDA5.dip.t-dialin.net 1199654477 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199654498 Q * bonbons Quit: Leaving 1199654651 Q * rgl Quit: Enough 1199655533 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199655703 Q * _marv Quit: Leaving 1199655748 Q * JonB Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199655871 Q * dna Quit: Verlassend 1199655960 Q * er Remote host closed the connection 1199656045 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199656092 Q * meandtheshel1 Quit: Leaving. 1199656398 J * PowerKe ~tom@d54C13E4B.access.telenet.be 1199656478 Q * derjohn_mobil Remote host closed the connection 1199656485 Q * yarihm Quit: Leaving 1199656692 J * derjohn_mobil ~aj@p5B23EDA5.dip.t-dialin.net 1199657168 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199657327 J * oliwel ~chatzilla@ppp-88-217-1-207.dynamic.mnet-online.de 1199657357 M * oliwel Good Evening everybody 1199657368 M * daniel_hozac hello 1199657377 M * oliwel Hi Daniel 1199657379 M * oliwel Nice to see you 1199657400 M * oliwel I hope you can shade some light.... 1199657424 M * oliwel You have a minute 1199657437 M * daniel_hozac sure. 1199657453 M * oliwel ok - lets start with the simple problem ;) 1199657461 M * oliwel I have a guest - bit old, bout 2y 1199657469 M * oliwel Guest and Host are Gentoo 1199657480 M * oliwel I updated only some tzhings in the server 1199657487 M * oliwel now I cant get it up 1199657495 M * oliwel init is not running through 1199657548 M * oliwel I stick with two lines "init /sbin/rc" in the guest 1199657548 M * oliwel entering the guest and clalling "init 3" by hand does the job 1199657548 M * oliwel everything is fine afterwards 1199657549 M * oliwel As I didnt touch the baseylout are anything else related to vserver I dont know where to look 1199657571 M * oliwel as suggestet on the list I also updated baselayout but that didnt help either 1199657643 M * oliwel Any idea 1199657691 M * daniel_hozac what does tail /etc/vservers//apps/init/* return? (paste.linux-vserver.org if >3 lines) 1199657756 M * oliwel there is only a style file and it is "plain" 1199657767 M * oliwel also tried to switch to gentoo but doesnt work either 1199657824 M * daniel_hozac okay, what does /etc/inittab contain in the guest? 1199657834 M * daniel_hozac especially the initdefault line. 1199657915 M * oliwel hmm.... 1199657923 M * oliwel on the backup it is empty 1199657932 M * oliwel on the copy in question there is no inittab at all 1199657945 M * daniel_hozac that seems quite wrong :) 1199657951 M * oliwel yeah 1199657956 M * oliwel I wonder where it is gone.... 1199657959 M * oliwel mom 1199658058 M * oliwel intermediate question -are you familiar with the gentoo stuff 1199658090 Q * mountie Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199658119 M * daniel_hozac not really, you probably want Hollow for that. 1199658134 M * oliwel hes never here :( 1199658170 M * oliwel hm ok - I guess there has more gone over... 1199658181 M * oliwel # /etc/vservers/test/fstab:1:1: failed to mount fstab-entry 1199658182 M * oliwel env: /lib/rcscripts/sh/init-vserver.sh: No such file or directory 1199658192 M * daniel_hozac gentoo initstyle? 1199658195 M * Hollow remerge sysvinit to get the initab 1199658200 M * Hollow then run the initpost script 1199658203 M * oliwel Ahh Hollow -.=) 1199658205 M * oliwel Hi 1199658216 M * Hollow hi oliwel 1199658225 M * oliwel I have another crazy problem 1199658231 M * oliwel I got a stage4 from your page 1199658284 M * oliwel runs 1199658284 M * oliwel then id emerge -u world 1199658284 M * oliwel first - the etc-update seems to crahs some vserver modifications 1199658284 M * oliwel second - now it segfautls :( 1199658427 M * oliwel daniel_hozac: no plain 1199658430 M * oliwel not gentoo 1199658453 M * oliwel a wait no....shit 1199658478 M * Hollow well, etc-update is there so you can decide which files to override .. ;) 1199658479 M * oliwel moved around the wrong config.... 1199658515 M * oliwel Hollow: sure, but there are heavy changes in some init scripts that looked not vserver related and I guess I missed one to skip 1199658530 M * oliwel is there a script to roll them back ? 1199658550 M * Hollow i don't think etc-update keeps backups 1199658562 M * oliwel no I meant your magic script 1199658567 M * Hollow i'd suggest to use dispatch-conf .. you can configure an rcs controlled backup dir then 1199658569 M * oliwel that you use to create the modifications 1199658571 M * Hollow no 1199658585 M * oliwel do you have a docu about the changes ? 1199658589 M * daniel_hozac the initpost script isn't enough? 1199658606 M * Hollow i assumed he refered to that :) 1199658620 M * oliwel sorry guys - what are you talking 'bout ;) 1199658663 M * Hollow oliwel: are you refering to the initpost script? 1199658676 M * oliwel what is the initpost script 1199658688 M * Hollow what is "your magic script"? 1199658700 M * oliwel with baselayout 1 1199658706 M * oliwel we had a special ebuild 1199658716 M * oliwel now with baselyout 2 we dont have such 1199658740 M * oliwel but it seems to me that you still make some modifications to the files from baselayout 1199658754 M * oliwel ergo - if you update baselyout yxou crush the chances 1199658756 M * Hollow yes, that's what initpost does 1199658757 M * oliwel changes 1199658766 M * oliwel ahh ok - so where is this scrpt ? 1199658766 M * Hollow /usr/lib/util-vserver/distributions/gentoo/initpost 1199658781 M * oliwel ymmd .9 1199658816 M * oliwel Fort the impatient one - if I run this on a "normal" basaylout - it will convert this into vserver gentoo style ? 1199658821 M * daniel_hozac you're my master dude? 1199658842 M * daniel_hozac you make me drool? 1199658851 M * oliwel than there should be a , in it -> ymm,d ;) 1199658952 M * oliwel what is "path of util-vserver-vars" 1199659069 M * oliwel ok got it... 1199659129 M * oliwel but it does not do the trick 1199659142 M * oliwel so Hollow any idea - I still have no working init in the guest 1199659160 M * oliwel I see two lines of "init boot" and a /sbin/rc sysinit 1199659168 M * oliwel inittab is in place 1199659179 J * mountie ~mountie@trb229.travel-net.com 1199659228 M * Hollow oliwel: maybe you can get some helpful output with gentoo initstyle 1199659279 J * duckx ~Duck@81.57.39.234 1199659293 M * oliwel then I get env: /lib/rcscripts/sh/init-vserver.sh: No such file or directory 1199659535 M * Hollow /usr/lib/util-vserver/distributions/gentoo/initpost /etc/vservers/ /usr/lib/util-vserver/util-vserver-vars 1199659543 M * Hollow run this 1199659552 M * oliwel I did this soem minutes ago 1199659627 M * Hollow you need to switch to gentoo init style before calling it 1199659661 M * oliwel ok mom 1199659722 M * oliwel a now it comes up, still one error 1199659724 M * oliwel # /etc/init.d/serial: line 7: is_vserver_guest: command not found 1199659757 M * Hollow i think this init script is long gone 1199659769 M * oliwel so just delete it ? 1199659770 M * Hollow but removing it from the default runlevel should be enough 1199659815 M * oliwel tarrraaaa ;) 1199659820 M * oliwel THX - seems to work now 1199659914 M * oliwel if you can spare an hour - call me for a beer 1199659955 M * Hollow oliwel: well, it takes more than one hour from berlin to munich ;) 1199659978 Q * AStorm Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199660004 M * oliwel I read on the list that you are in Berlin but guess you are at your parents some times 1199660004 J * AStorm ~astralsto@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net 1199660005 M * Hollow yep, from time to time 1199660008 M * oliwel Whats about updating guest from baselayout-vserver to baselyout 2 1199660024 M * oliwel is it sufficient to emerge and run the initpost script ? 1199660028 M * Hollow should work fine, except you have old init script around ;) 1199660032 M * oliwel or are there any other pitfalls 1199660036 M * oliwel :P 1199660040 M * Hollow well 1199660054 Q * ema Quit: leaving 1199660055 M * Hollow CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/init.d" emerge baselayout ... 1199660060 M * Hollow probably a good idea 1199660077 M * oliwel sometimes not really... 1199660095 M * Hollow well, portage is confused by the dummy symlinks 1199660130 M * oliwel ok but for such stupid things like the apache guys who move their configs from time to time you are stuck without the new init's 1199660151 Q * transacid Ping timeout: 480 seconds 1199660155 M * Hollow i would be careful 1199660164 M * Hollow i am the only apache maintainer currently :P 1199660199 M * daniel_hozac lol 1199660236 M * Hollow and these changes where more than necessary 1199660292 M * oliwel oops :) 1199660332 M * oliwel hm I sse that glibc 2.6 is out - do you suggest pulling it up and making a complete rebuild ? 1199660352 M * oliwel or better - plans for an updted stage 3 :) 1199660369 M * Hollow i don't rebuilt world just because of glibc version bumps, but if that's your policy, than yes ;) 1199660383 M * oliwel Somebody told me to do so... 1199660386 M * oliwel not my idea.... 1199660397 M * oliwel But I guess its not worth.... 1199660398 M * Hollow a lot fo people tell a lot of weird things every day :P 1199660410 M * oliwel Sure.... 1199660426 M * oliwel its hard to figure out whos right... 1199660443 M * Hollow well, some apps might use newer glibc features, but its not worth the effort IMO 1199660450 M * oliwel I have a basic understanding of the stuff but dont ask me whats de benfit of a new glibc 1199660463 M * oliwel at least not for a LAMP 1199660467 M * Hollow i came across one issue lately 1199660478 M * Hollow glibc < 2.5 or sth doesn't have inotify support 1199660519 M * oliwel but inotify on a LAMP is a no go.... 1199660537 M * Hollow well, i use it to synchronize 3 streaming vservers .. 1199660547 M * waldi oliwel: glibc 2.7 is out since a long time 1199660547 J * transacid ~transacid@transacid.de 1199660610 M * oliwel waldi: most of my systems run 2.3 ;=) 1199660621 M * waldi shit happens 1199660640 M * oliwel does the job 1199660641 J * ViRUS ~mp@p57A6F8AB.dip.t-dialin.net 1199660659 M * Hollow and i worry about being late with updates ... ;) 1199660709 M * oliwel you know - never touch a running system ;) 1199660723 M * oliwel I now did as php4 is finally dead 1199660742 M * oliwel the other LAMP is 2y and I did nothing than security updates 1199660752 M * oliwel I see the horror on my playground system 1199660772 M * oliwel if you go two fast or frequently - you just have to fix a lot of stuff 1199660781 M * oliwel two = too 1199660786 M * Hollow well, frequent updates prevent the upgrade hell after two years ;) 1199660811 M * Hollow well, i updated ~50 gentoo vserver yesterday, was really smooth ;) 1199660855 M * oliwel can work :) 1199660859 M * Hollow binary packages FTW 1199660883 M * oliwel But this stupid setup here with shared root and mapped configs sometimes make headache 1199660903 M * oliwel I have very bad experinces with bianries... 1199660961 M * Hollow well, i wrote a little script which checks out use flag configs from svn, to keep the same use flags everywhere, so binary packages work almost alway (and portage detects use flag changes and doesnÄt use a binpkg) 1199661207 M * oliwel I had probs espacially with kde related ebuild 1199661225 M * oliwel I looked like that use flags and dependencies were not detected corectly 1199661237 M * oliwel result was a lot of segfaults and unknown symbols 1199661275 M * oliwel I run 3 different root images and they are that different that it does not make a lot of sense to use binaries 1199661321 M * oliwel the problem is the bit freaky setup here that crashes if one of the mapped configs change 1199661343 J * Linus ~nuhks@bl7-139-12.dsl.telepac.pt 1199662661 M * oliwel so guys - will move to bed - thx for the help and have a good nigh 1199663055 Q * oliwel Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718] 1199663663 Q * mnemoc Ping timeout: 480 seconds