1192409017 Q * ensc Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192409428 J * friendly12345 ~friendly@ppp59-167-69-153.lns1.mel4.internode.on.net
1192409971 J * coderanger_ ~coderange@x-1-20.dynamic2.rpi.edu
1192412098 Q * PhatJ Read error: Connection reset by peer
1192412134 J * PhatJ ~PhatJ@24-231-253-65.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com
1192412421 Q * micah Remote host closed the connection
1192413201 J * oauto ~micah@micah.riseup.net
1192414170 N * oauto micah
1192414506 Q * bzed Remote host closed the connection
1192415954 Q * _gh_ Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192422662 J * bzed ~bzed@devel.recluse.de
1192426012 Q * FireEgl Read error: Connection reset by peer
1192426185 J * quasisane ~sanep@c-76-118-191-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net
1192426861 J * FireEgl FireEgl@4.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.c.d.4.8.0.c.5.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
1192428764 Q * Medivh Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192428847 J * sharkjaw ~lgab@shell.ormset.no
1192428855 Q * virtuoso_ Read error: Connection reset by peer
1192428861 J * virtuoso ~s0t0na@ppp91-122-59-216.pppoe.avangard-dsl.ru
1192429138 Q * FireEgl Read error: Connection reset by peer
1192429915 J * FireEgl FireEgl@Sebastian.Atlantica.DollarDNS.Net
1192430856 Q * sharkjaw Remote host closed the connection
1192430867 J * sharkjaw ~lgab@shell.ormset.no
1192431488 J * ntrs ~ntrs@79.125.255.234
1192432400 J * DavidS ~david@193.170.138.34
1192432515 J * dna ~dna@43-218-dsl.kielnet.net
1192433846 J * larsivi ~larsivi@85.221.53.194
1192434451 Q * larsivi Read error: Connection reset by peer
1192434478 J * larsivi ~larsivi@85.221.53.194
1192434788 J * JonB ~NoSuchUse@0x5739c8b4.roennqu1.broadband.tele.dk
1192435050 Q * ntrs Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192435154 Q * JonB Quit: Leaving
1192435944 Q * friendly12345 Remote host closed the connection
1192436372 Q * hparker Quit: g'nite
1192436641 J * bastiaan1 ~bastiaan@sh.vhl.welmers.net
1192436661 Q * bastiaan_ Read error: Connection reset by peer
1192436936 J * ntrs ~ntrs@79.125.255.234
1192437420 Q * ntrs Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192438923 J * friendly12345 ~friendly@ppp59-167-69-153.lns1.mel4.internode.on.net
1192439330 P * the-dude Leaving
1192439426 J * gebura ~gebura@173.201.101-84.rev.gaoland.net
1192439591 Q * larsivi Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192439690 J * balbir ~balbir@59.178.56.43
1192440352 J * Yvo yvonne@vpn070.rz.uni-mannheim.de
1192440367 P * Yvo 
1192440587 Q * balbir Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192440604 Q * gebura Quit: Quitte
1192442846 J * nebuchad` ~nebu@zion.asgardr.info
1192443022 Q * nebuchadnezzar Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192443235 J * larsivi ~larsivi@101.84-48-201.nextgentel.com
1192445384 J * ntrs ~ntrs@79.125.255.234
1192446592 J * Medivh ck@paradise.by.the.dashboardlight.de
1192447892 M * dmnd hi
1192448123 M * daniel_hozac hello
1192448752 P * friendly12345 
1192449065 Q * ntrs Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192449648 J * Yvo yvonne@vpn246.rz.uni-mannheim.de
1192449985 Q * Aiken Quit: Leaving
1192450611 J * ftx ~ftx@dslb-084-060-255-114.pools.arcor-ip.net
1192450614 J * Yv1 yvonne@vpn-9-004.rz.uni-mannheim.de
1192450740 Q * Yvo Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192450890 P * Yv1 
1192451250 Q * PhatJ Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192451588 J * ema ~ema@rtfm.galliera.it
1192453422 N * Bertl_zZ Bertl
1192453429 M * Bertl morning folks!
1192453433 M * daniel_hozac morning bertl!
1192453455 M * AStorm hello great elders
1192453865 J * balbir ~balbir@59.178.43.41
1192454128 M * Bertl wb balbir!
1192454178 M * balbir Bertl: Pleasure is mine
1192455871 Q * rob-84x^ Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192456955 Q * Loki|muh Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192457039 Q * sharkjaw Quit: Leaving
1192457421 Q * ftx Remote host closed the connection
1192457892 Q * balbir Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192458612 J * balbir ~balbir@59.178.45.155
1192458928 J * Loki|muh loki@satanix.de
1192459207 Q * phreak`` Remote host closed the connection
1192459237 J * phreak`` ~phreak``@deimos.barfoo.org
1192459268 J * ay ay@nfsd.linpro.no
1192459276 M * Bertl welcome ay!
1192459277 M * ay Good afternoon.
1192459398 J * dowdle ~dowdle@scott.coe.montana.edu
1192459404 M * ay I've been a vivid user of vservers for quite a few years. Using failover and Drbd and the lot. But I'm a little worried about the "Latest News" Section on www.linux-vserver.org.. Last news is 06 nov 2006...What happened? (I've been away in Xen and OpenVZ land for a few months, and want to come back)
1192459423 M * ay :-)
1192459429 M * Bertl I think we simply should remove that section
1192459440 M * Bertl as nobody is interested in adding any news there
1192459457 M * ay Autocommit new versions there? :-)
1192459464 M * dowdle ay: I know they have been doing a ton of work... and the fact that the latest kernels are supported should tell you something.  Updating the website is probably a low priority.
1192459495 M * Bertl until we dod that, I just remove it for now
1192459556 Q * balbir Read error: Operation timed out
1192459566 M * Bertl so, done :)
1192459614 M * Bertl ay: how was Xen and OVZ?
1192459713 M * ay Xen is fun. But something else. OpenVZ is cool, and looks very active.. But lakcs some stuff that vserver have.
1192459750 M * ay Or. Rather, you have to buy the cool backend to do stuff like hardlinking files to share shared libraries etc.
1192459765 M * Bertl 'looks very active' sounds about right ...
1192459794 M * ay The networking is i bit more clumsy, but better seperated.
1192459807 M * Bertl and has more overhead :)
1192459830 M * Bertl that's isolation vs. virtualization 
1192459863 M * ay They've got working resource sharing..
1192459870 M * Bertl and yes, OVZ is the advertisement 'product' for Virtuozzo(tm) and friends
1192459881 M * ay But i can't get for example drbd to compile on a openvz-enabled kernel.
1192459884 Q * Loki|muh Quit: leaving
1192459890 M * Bertl ay: what resources do they share?
1192459891 J * Loki|muh loki@satanix.de
1192459902 M * dowdle Bertl: I haven't met anyone who has gone from OpenVZ to Virtuozzo myself... but I guess there are some.
1192459923 M * Bertl dowdle: you have to have some money for that step :)
1192459946 M * dowdle Bertl: Exactly.
1192459951 M * ay OpenVZ has all the cool features of Virtuozzo, except the sharing memory for shared libraries.
1192459952 M * arachnist weren't virtuozzo people pushing openvz inclusion in kernel?
1192459958 M * ay So that isn't such a biggie.
1192459971 M * ay It works pretty well, I understand gentoo-people swears to it.
1192459972 M * Bertl dowdle: but ask for more features to add, and the channel will suggest you to use Virtuozzo(tm) for 24/7 production systems
1192460001 M * dowdle ay: The way they do that, there are some drawbacks.  The vz filesystem has additional flags that aren't compatible with some stock utilities like tar and cpio so they have to maintain alternative versions.
1192460012 M * ay dowdle: Ouch. 
1192460080 M * dowdle ay: Some of the features in Virtuozzo almost no one uses.. like name-based virtualization.  I have trouble imagining how that would even work.
1192460110 M * Bertl hmm? what does that mean?
1192460126 M * dowdle ay: Don't get me wrong, Virtuozzo is q pretty nice product.  Especially if you want to do Windows on Windows (do that with Linux-VServer or OpenVZ)... and it has nice GUIs.
1192460131 M * ay ? Sure they don't think about naming your vservers? in OpenVz servers are identified by numbers/ids' not names.
1192460163 M * dowdle Bertl: It means that the VPSes can share the same IP address as the host... and have name-based VPSes kinda like name-based vs. IP-based virtual hosting in Apache.
1192460188 M * dowdle ay: You can use names with OpenVZ>  They've supported that for a while now.
1192460208 M * dowdle ay: But I don't think all of the documentation has been changed to reflect that... and most still refers to VEID.
1192460239 M * dowdle ay: vzctl set {VEID} --name {name} --save
1192460256 M * ay Ok. That was acctually one of the reasons I want to go back. Easier to identify what servers do what.
1192460323 J * balbir ~balbir@59.178.34.130
1192460338 M * dowdle ay: vzctl can use the name but I don't think all of the vz commands are aware of names.  It's basically /etc/vz/names/{name} -> /etc/vz/conf/{VEID}.conf (the name is a symlink to the config).
1192460369 M * ay Hows resource limitation comming along in vservers?
1192460401 M * Bertl it's there since ages?
1192460431 M * Bertl http://linux-vserver.org/Resource_Limits
1192460457 M * ay Is it just me or is linux-vserver.org having connection problems?
1192460470 M * Bertl works fine here ...
1192460473 M * ay Hm,
1192460481 M * dowdle Bertl: Sticking my nose in... I think the biggest missing component for Linux-VServer is a good Getting Started Guide that covers most everything in one document.
1192460495 M * dowdle Bertl: Yeah, and I should get right on that myself, eh? :)
1192460498 M * Bertl ay: maybe your OVZ kernel is blocking the URL :)
1192460515 M * Bertl dowdle: exactly, any help is welcome, but I think this isn't so bad ...
1192460523 M * ay Bertl: Hehe. Nope. We don't use OpenVZ in production. It's just running on one of my home machines.
1192460542 M * Bertl dowdle: http://linux-vserver.org/Installation_on_Linux_2.6
1192460553 M * dowdle Bertl: Well, you and your fellow developers don't think it is so bad (and I'm not saying it is "bad") because you've been in there for years now.
1192460556 M * ay We usem, vservers (very old stuff, from debian woody-times), xen, virtual-iron and OpenPower virtualisation here :-)
1192460572 M * dowdle Bertl: Yes, I've seen what's there... although I do find new stuff every now and then.
1192460591 M * dowdle Bertl: And yes, I'm still little better than a Linux-VServer novice.
1192460614 M * Bertl ay: still issues with the url? if so, from where do you try?
1192460626 M * dowdle ay: Virtual Iron is based on Xen but of course they don't use that name.  How does it compare to say... XenSource's GUI admin?
1192460631 M * ay Norway. Seems to be stuck in denmarks..
1192460636 M * dowdle ay: What is OpenPower?
1192460651 M * ay dowdle: Much cooler. (And yes i know it's just xen)
1192460661 M * ay dowdle: Ibm Medium Range machines.
1192460680 M * ay Think Xen with hardwaresupport much more hardwaresupport.
1192460691 M * ay Eh. That came out twice.
1192460694 M * dowdle Bertl: Hmmm, I'm having a problem getting there myself... and this machine isn't running an OpenVZ kernel :)... I think it might be DNS burping.
1192460778 M * ay Now it's up and running againg.
1192460792 M * Bertl I didn't change anything ...
1192460805 M * ay Probably just routingtroube out there somewhere.
1192460812 M * ay dowdle: You're comming from?
1192460849 M * ay Is there a way for a vserver to identify it's parent? 
1192460874 M * dowdle ay: Montana in the United States
1192460885 M * Bertl ay: there are no parents in Linux-VServer yet (i.e. no hierarchical structures)
1192460913 M * ay Might be wrong in a security context, but it would be nice when logging in to a vserver to check somewhere in proc the hostname of the host.
1192460955 M * Bertl that depends on your PoV, some think that exposing any information from the host is a very bad idea
1192460977 M * Bertl ay: but if you like to do so, you could provide that information to each guest via uts
1192461027 M * ay Via uts? 
1192461036 A * ay has to get into vserver hacking aging.
1192461041 M * ay again.
1192461122 M * Bertl http://www.nongnu.org/util-vserver/doc/conf/configuration.html
1192461127 M * Bertl search for 'uts'
1192461275 M * ay Which "variable" would you use to contain the hostname of the host machine, and how do you access it from the vserver?
1192461285 M * ay Just create you own?
1192461294 M * Bertl nah, that's not really easy
1192461317 M * Bertl those are all fields used in the kernel, but the size of each of them is at least 64 chars
1192461330 M * Bertl and they get all displayed in `uname -a`
1192461342 M * Bertl except for the context one
1192461384 M * ay Could ofcource just hack it so that the host writes a file directly to the filesystem of the vserver when it starts up
1192461409 M * Bertl so, if you extend one or the other to contain this information, it can be easily retrieved
1192461421 M * Bertl sure, that is an option too
1192461459 M * dowdle Bertl: Ok, I got there... I think it was just a temporary routing problem somewhere inbetween.
1192461517 M * Bertl ok, good
1192461637 Q * balbir Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192461723 M * ay Ok. Question2. Is there a easy way to check what version of vserver I am running?
1192461728 M * ay the kernel-part.
1192461738 M * Bertl inside a guest or on the host?
1192461744 M * ay host.
1192461759 M * Bertl yes, Linux-VServer kernels have an extension shown with uname
1192461770 M * Bertl e.g. 2.6.22.9-vs2.3.0.26
1192461773 Q * FireEgl Read error: Connection reset by peer
1192461783 M * Bertl the vs2.3.0.26 is the Linux-VServer version
1192461785 M * ay Nice. Thanks.
1192461806 M * Bertl note that some distro kernels do remove the extension
1192461826 M * Bertl in which case, you can consult /proc/virtual/info for the API version 
1192461848 M * Bertl (which doesn't tell you the exact version but at least the kernel interface version)
1192462265 M * ay Anyone tried lguest here by the way?
1192462288 M * ema Out of curiosity: is /proc/virtual/status a recent addition? I do have it on a recently installed host and not on an older one
1192462331 J * balbir ~balbir@59.178.49.147
1192462380 M * Bertl ema: if you define recent as over the last three years, yes
1192462405 M * ema Bertl: :) yes, it's a ancient 2.6.18
1192462419 M * Bertl ema: IIRC, it should be in all 2.6 kernels
1192462664 M * ema Bertl: /proc/virtual/info has VCISyscall:     236 on that machine
1192462664 M * ema And it's indeed linux 2.6.18 
1192462664 M * Bertl ah, sorry, my fault, I meant /proc/virtual/info in the first place
1192462664 M * ema Ah, nope, I do have virtual/info on both the hosts
1192462664 M * Bertl the status was indeed added by the devel kernels
1192462718 M * dowdle ay: Is lguest OS virtualization?  I know it uses the paravirtual_ops (or whatever it is) interface, but I thought it was a hypervisor too?!?
1192462726 Q * ay cation.oftc.net kilo.oftc.net
1192462726 Q * ema cation.oftc.net kilo.oftc.net
1192462726 Q * virtuoso cation.oftc.net kilo.oftc.net
1192462726 Q * fb cation.oftc.net kilo.oftc.net
1192462726 Q * AStorm cation.oftc.net kilo.oftc.net
1192462726 Q * zLinux cation.oftc.net kilo.oftc.net
1192462726 Q * Bertl cation.oftc.net kilo.oftc.net
1192462726 Q * dsoul cation.oftc.net kilo.oftc.net
1192462726 Q * duckx cation.oftc.net kilo.oftc.net
1192462726 Q * sladen cation.oftc.net kilo.oftc.net
1192462726 Q * bragon cation.oftc.net kilo.oftc.net
1192462739 M * dowdle Netsplit
1192462745 J * ay ay@nfsd.linpro.no
1192462745 J * ema ~ema@rtfm.galliera.it
1192462745 J * virtuoso ~s0t0na@ppp91-122-59-216.pppoe.avangard-dsl.ru
1192462745 J * fb fback@red.fback.net
1192462745 J * AStorm ~astralsto@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net
1192462745 J * zLinux ~zLinux@88.213.26.14
1192462745 J * Bertl herbert@IRC.13thfloor.at
1192462745 J * dsoul darksoul@vice.ii.uj.edu.pl
1192462745 J * duckx ~Duck@tox.dyndns.org
1192462745 J * sladen paul@starsky.19inch.net
1192462745 J * bragon ~bragon@2001:7a8:aa58::1
1192462751 J * FireEgl FireEgl@Sebastian.Atlantica.CJB.Net
1192462758 M * Bertl it seems that the internet has some problems today ... maybe a new virus? :)
1192462772 M * sid3windr problems? :)
1192462812 M * dowdle Bertl: Not the OpenVZ kernel, eh? :)
1192462923 M * Bertl well, you never know with binary kernels ... could be, could be :)
1192462940 Q * balbir Read error: Operation timed out
1192462972 J * PhatJ ~PhatJ@24-231-253-65.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com
1192463673 J * balbir ~balbir@59.178.59.133
1192463823 J * JonB ~NoSuchUse@0x535f65c3.kjnxx7.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk
1192464682 J * wam ~wam@p57B5633F.dip.t-dialin.net
1192464740 M * wam Hi, I'm trying to patch the 2.6.22-kernel from ubuntu gusty. I get 11xrejected when patching. I guess this is bad. Should I simply take a kernel from kernel.org?
1192464744 M * Bertl welcome wam!
1192464749 M * wam hi Bertl !
1192464771 M * Bertl well, the 2.6.22 kernel from ubuntu is probably not a 2.6.22 kernel at all
1192464788 M * wam ;)
1192464789 M * Bertl i.e. it is patched from the vendor in various ways
1192464796 M * wam i know. Just hoped :/
1192464804 M * wam So I'll take a vanilla one.
1192464815 M * Bertl I doubt, that you will miss any features (from ubuntu kernels) when going for a 2.6.22.9
1192464847 M * Bertl if you do, then check the patches ubuntu applies and try to apply the ones you are missing
1192464859 M * wam ok - so i shouldn't use 2.6.22.10?
1192464877 M * Bertl that's fine too, didn't realize it was already released
1192464885 M * wam good.
1192464887 M * wam thanks
1192464902 M * Bertl you might also want to bug ubuntu folks for a Linux-VServer kernel
1192464909 M * Bertl (as debian provides)
1192464973 M * wam Bertl: I was about to use debian (as on all my other servers). But the lag in deployment sucks. I'll bug them ;)
1192464996 M * bzed just use debian :)
1192465022 M * wam bzed: thats simply too slow with new features.
1192465024 M * bzed .22 kernels hould eb on backports.org
1192465041 M * bzed you don;t want to be that fast with new features for a production system
1192465051 M * wam bzed: you bet i will ;)
1192465062 M * bzed then use debian/testing
1192465064 M * Bertl bzed: yep, I think that is a matter of personal preference
1192465065 M * dowdle You can use the Debian kernel on Ubuntu, can't you?
1192465075 M * bzed dowdle: should work, yes
1192465080 M * wam dowdle: not sure. Before I do that, I compile my own...
1192465119 J * bonbons ~bonbons@2001:960:7ab:0:20b:5dff:fec7:6b33
1192465136 M * Bertl compiling your own kernel has a number of advantages
1192465139 M * bzed Bertl: I prefer to have stable things on a production machine... I've given ubuntun a try twice, and both times I went back to debian
1192465175 M * dowdle bzed: To me, Ubuntu just isn't for servers... even though, yeah... they have a server edition.
1192465193 M * Bertl I'm no ubuntu fan either, it seems way to broken for my taste ... but as usual, YMMV
1192465207 M * epicbjorn Windows has a server edition too. that doesn't make windows suitable for servers
1192465210 A * epicbjorn ducks
1192465250 Q * balbir Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192465272 M * dowdle epicbjorn: I don't like to admit it but Windows *IS* pretty stable these days.
1192465325 M * bzed dowdle: you jhaven;t tried vista
1192465348 M * bzed dowdle: even on desktops... I don;t like not to be able to upgrade properly :\
1192465362 M * bzed ubuntu always broke on that
1192465390 M * epicbjorn ubuntu and apt in general likes to invade and take over everything that has to do with system configuration
1192465400 M * dowdle bzed: I have tried Vista... a server version of it isn't available yet... and yes it sucks.
1192465418 M * epicbjorn so if you ever run ubuntu, don't change anything and rely on it cause next time you update it will be back to std
1192465429 Q * FireEgl Read error: Connection reset by peer
1192465433 M * daniel_hozac Ubuntu gives you STDs? :o
1192465435 M * bzed epicbjorn: uh, dpkg was made not to do that.
1192465444 M * bzed epicbjorn: at least on debian that works well
1192465448 M * dowdle bzed: I don't want to open up a can of worms, but some people like clean installs rather than upgrades (regarding major version changes).  Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages.
1192465464 M * bzed no clue if they've fucked up dpkg to ignore conffiles or so....
1192465510 M * bzed dowdle: sure, not a problem with that if people prefer that. but both ways should be possible. fresh installs (should) work always
1192465528 M * epicbjorn how about just adding a --please-dont-fuckup-my-configs flag to apt..
1192465551 M * daniel_hozac Bertl: regarding dmap and proc... how do you think that should be handled? exported proc function in device.c, or some method of accessing the hash from proc.c?
1192465598 M * wam damn that's great. 2xquadcore 2GHz with 8GB RAM now compiling the kernel ;) That RUNS!
1192465611 M * epicbjorn I think I just had a musical orgasm
1192465631 M * epicbjorn which makes me incabable of IRCing correctly
1192465632 A * epicbjorn off
1192465660 J * rob-84x^ rob@submarine.ath.cx
1192465761 M * wam 8 cpus at 100% and load of 23 - all running nicely ;)
1192465771 M * dowdle Bertl: How goes the interview questions?
1192465792 M * Bertl dowdle: had some network issues on saturday ... so that got delayed
1192465804 M * dowdle Bertl: Ok.  Just curious.
1192465811 M * Bertl dowdle: but they are still on my todo list, no worries
1192465818 M * bzed epicbjorn: apt does not mess with configs.
1192465844 M * bzed epicbjorn: apt doesn;t even touch them. it's only a wrapper around dpkg to install/remove/... packages
1192465858 M * bzed epicbjorn: dpkg is what you want to blame. but only the ubuntu version please
1192465903 M * bzed wam: you know that a core is not a 'real' cpu?
1192465905 M * wam real 5m6, user 33m15, sys 4m26  - a full blown all-modules-enabled ubuntu kernel ;)
1192465924 M * wam bzed: but nearly as good.
1192465925 J * balbir ~balbir@59.178.56.132
1192466103 M * dowdle Here's two new (to me) computer laws I learned last week: 1) Software is like a gas - it expands to fit its container, and 2) Software is getting slower faster than hardware is getting faster.
1192466212 M * Bertl hmm, I agree on M$ products here
1192466233 M * bzed definitely
1192466233 M * Bertl after all, they constantly try to use more computing power than available
1192466258 J * ntrs ~ntrs@79.125.255.234
1192466272 M * Bertl but my irssi, vim, mutt, ..., for example, hasn't change much (in size) over the years ... and it works well on very old machines too
1192466274 M * bzed if I would be boss there I'd replace all developer machines with pentium II or so
1192466325 M * bzed if they'd have to work with that every day things would become better for sure :D
1192466337 J * FireEgl FireEgl@4.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.c.d.4.8.0.c.5.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
1192466364 M * Bertl bzed: well, that is the problem: neither improvement nor better performance are in their interest :)
1192466510 M * dowdle Newsflash: Novell has laid off its AppArmor developers
1192466877 Q * JonB Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
1192467079 M * bzed dowdle: oooooold
1192467322 M * dowdle bzed: Yeah, it was originally reported last Thursday.  I didn't notice until today.
1192467363 M * dowdle But I guess they all got laid off on Sept 28th... and I'm just now hearing about it? 
1192467524 J * JonB ~NoSuchUse@0x535f65c3.kjnxx7.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk
1192467640 M * dowdle Best info on the patent lawsuit against Red Hat and Novell that I've seen so far: http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/254406/49a4dda632a84071/ 
1192469453 J * hparker ~hparker@linux.homershut.net
1192469607 Q * JonB Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
1192470308 Q * ema Quit: leaving
1192470892 M * Johnsie Hi folks. :)
1192470906 M * daniel_hozac hello
1192470965 M * Johnsie I'm curious if anyone can assist me with setting up loopback devices for some vserver guests...I'm running version 2.2.0 of the kernel patches.
1192470991 M * daniel_hozac why?
1192470992 M * Johnsie Do I need to upgrade and/or wait for 2.3.x.x?
1192470999 J * _gh_ ~gerrit@c-67-169-199-103.hsd1.or.comcast.net
1192471055 M * daniel_hozac 2.3 has native loopback addresses, yes.
1192471189 Q * larsivi Quit: Konversation terminated!
1192471608 J * ensc ~irc-ensc@p54B4CCD0.dip.t-dialin.net
1192472031 J * larsivi ~larsivi@101.84-48-201.nextgentel.com
1192472451 J * ntrs_ ~ntrs@79.125.232.149
1192472780 Q * ntrs Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192473185 M * bXi daniel_hozac: any estimate on when 2.4 arives?
1192473211 M * daniel_hozac we _just_ launched 2.2.
1192473232 M * daniel_hozac 2.3 has like 3 new features at this point.
1192473815 J * JonB ~NoSuchUse@0x5739c8b4.roennqu1.broadband.tele.dk
1192474950 M * zbyniu daniel_hozac: what about patch for 2.6.23? :)
1192474977 M * daniel_hozac that's Bertl's area...
1192475008 M * zbyniu ok
1192475029 M * wam is util-vserver 0.30.213 ok? I could use the binary package of this so I wouldn't have to compile 0.30.114.
1192475039 M * daniel_hozac what distro is that?
1192475048 M * wam mine?
1192475051 M * wam ubuntu
1192475057 M * wam gusty
1192475067 M * daniel_hozac well, if it works at all, i guess that's fine.
1192475075 M * wam ;) thanks
1192475082 M * daniel_hozac but in the past, Ubuntu packages have been completely unusable.
1192475102 M * wam daniel_hozac: so I'll try. At least the kernel is vanilla + vserver
1192475137 M * wam daniel_hozac: they provide the vserver-copy. Is this included meanwhile? Or is this a ubuntu fake?
1192475152 M * daniel_hozac it's an ancient legacy script.
1192475164 M * wam daniel_hozac: Yeah - Even in vserver 2.0 I didn't use this...
1192475164 M * daniel_hozac use vserver ... build -m clone or vserver ... build -m rsync.
1192475171 M * wam as usual ;) thanks
1192475173 M * daniel_hozac it's for 2.4.
1192475190 M * daniel_hozac or, well, it's for legacy configs which were primarily used with 2.4.
1192475447 J * rgl ~rgl@84.90.9.113
1192475450 A * rgl waves
1192475459 M * daniel_hozac hi
1192476048 J * CWC CWC@89-215-37-177.2073053861.ddns-lan.pl.ekk.bg
1192476065 M * Bertl wb CWC!
1192476207 M * rgl hows the patch status for 2.6.23?
1192476208 A * rgl docks
1192476257 J * ema ~ema@rtfm.galliera.it
1192476331 M * AStorm rgl: something in Experimental dir
1192476336 M * AStorm missing scheduler stuff
1192476370 M * rgl ah, it now compiles?   gonna try it :-)
1192476380 M * AStorm maybe not
1192476382 M * AStorm I'll check
1192476391 M * AStorm last time it needed some fairly trivial fix
1192476438 M * wam you know what's best on vserver? you can type it with one hand ;)
1192476455 M * rgl hehe
1192476484 M * eyck you can type everything with one finger you know...
1192476529 M * AStorm wam: not on dvorak I think
1192476547 M * AStorm and you can't type linux-vserver with one hand
1192476570 Q * brc Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192476580 M * wam AStorm: yeah - the "x" is breaking linux. Otherwise you could type it with alterating hands ,)
1192476603 M * wam I would have called it linum. Just for beauty-of-keyboard-typing.
1192476610 M * wam or linuk
1192476640 M * AStorm linukh ;P
1192476646 M * daniel_hozac the x is the most important character though.
1192476649 A * wam is downloading 450MB image of a vserver via dsl so /me has time ;)
1192476654 M * AStorm that'd be Linux combined with Lisp ;P
1192476677 M * wam daniel_hozac: yeah - too bad. So the "linu" should move to the left side, what would make "linux vserver" be typeable with one hand...
1192476717 M * AStorm it is typeable with one hand anyway, if you skip the -
1192476739 M * AStorm linux vserver
1192476744 M * AStorm yeah, it works :>
1192476771 M * dowdle Typing with two hands is load balanced typing.
1192476776 M * wam AStorm: what is your keyboard looking like? Or do you have some strangely moving hand?
1192476785 M * wam dowdle: lol
1192476787 M * AStorm wam: some strangely moving hand ;P
1192476803 M * arachnist i need left hand for "e" when trying to type "linux vserver" with only one hand
1192476808 M * arachnist (dvorak)
1192476809 M * wam dowdle: it's more than task-switching...
1192476812 M * wam s/than/like
1192476818 M * arachnist linux vserver
1192476827 M * AStorm i started with a left hand moving top right to left bottom
1192476832 Q * CWC Quit: Client exiting
1192476891 M * arachnist l(r) i(l) n(r) u(l) x(l) v(r) s(r) e(l) r(r) v(r) e(l) r(r)
1192476910 M * AStorm arachnist: you dvorak user!
1192476912 M * AStorm ;P
1192476918 M * arachnist AStorm: :P
1192476922 M * wam arachnist: is this keyboard optimized for multi-core hands?!
1192476938 M * AStorm wam: no, it overloads the left hand in most languages
1192476949 M * arachnist wam: dvorak seems to be more load-balanced in englsh
1192476950 M * wam like "i have two cores on each hand, each steering 3 fingers. or so
1192476977 M * AStorm wam: I have 2 cores + fair scheduling
1192476982 J * Julius ~julius@p57B24FE1.dip.t-dialin.net
1192476988 M * AStorm 5 processes per core
1192476993 M * wam arachnist: yeah - much more optimized.
1192477018 M * arachnist i have 5 + 4 (using only left prod for space)
1192477059 M * AStorm arachnist: haha
1192477082 M * arachnist probably because i'm a long-time fps player ;.
1192477087 M * AStorm you fail at life and everything - youfail.org
1192477108 M * arachnist AStorm: you fail at failing, /dev/zero for you
1192477118 M * AStorm the idea is that my right hand is mostly occupied with altgr
1192477143 M * arachnist speaking of fps...
1192477146 M * AStorm though I can use it effectively for spacebar
1192477151 M * arachnist WoP time
1192477179 M * wam damn - that's straight forward.
1192477239 M * arachnist damn, no WoP players online that i know
1192477261 M * arachnist btw, "x" is quite troublesome on dvorak
1192477290 M * arachnist it's exactly between right and left hand
1192477294 M * wam arachnist: you can type it as AltGr + ` + /
1192477324 M * wam or was it Ctrl + / + \? No - that was the upper one...
1192477419 M * daniel_hozac and that's the "easier" method of typing x?
1192477433 M * wam I've never seen a dvorak keyboard.
1192477632 M * arachnist i just rearranged keys on my keyboard
1192477643 M * dowdle wam: Your existing keyboard is Dvorak if configured so.
1192477679 M * arachnist wam: http://img.wklej.org/images/10388DSC00020.JPG
1192477921 J * Yvo ~yvonne@91.64.217.106
1192477961 M * dowdle arachnist: Here's a keyboard for you.  I know a Dvorak guy who could do over 200WPM with one of these contoured keyboards: http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/contoured.htm
1192477997 M * arachnist dowdle: any kind of "natural" keyboard feels awkward for me
1192478023 M * dowdle arachnist: The picture doesn't do it justice.. the contour of the keys (the ball-like curve) means your finger barely have to move at all.
1192478042 M * dowdle arachnist: They even offer a foot peddle addon.
1192478052 M * Bertl wb Yvo!
1192478061 M * arachnist dowdle: foot peddle? lol
1192478088 M * dowdle Here's a better picture of the curve: http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/images/kb_concave-keywell696x390.jpg
1192478104 M * dowdle arachnist: Yeah, why type only with your hands... when you can load balance with your feet too.
1192478110 M * JonB dowdle: dont sit on your keyboard
1192478134 M * arachnist dowdle: eww, grose 
1192478139 M * dowdle arachnist: Oh, and by the way, those keyboards have a button on the keyboard to switch it between dvorak and qwerty.
1192478184 M * wam arachnist: dowdle: this is absolutely crazy ;)
1192478201 M * arachnist well, i'm just used to flat keys like on logitech ultrax keyboards
1192478202 M * wam Is there a doc which shows me how to make a .deb out of util-vserver?
1192478219 M * JonB wam: checkinstall ?
1192478222 M * wam ...the ubuntu-version segfaults as expected.
1192478243 M * wam JonB: ah, right. Thanks
1192478248 M * dowdle arachnist: "Optional foot switches - up to three foot switches can be used to perform keystrokes, redistributing a portion of the workload away from your hands. For instance, a foot switch can be used to activate the embedded 10-key pad or "shift" key. "
1192478302 M * AStorm dowdle: buy me a foot wheel generator for my laptop
1192478316 M * AStorm capable of up to 65W
1192478332 M * dowdle AStorm: Just get solar panel hair.
1192478338 M * AStorm so that I could charge my laptop battery w/o any power source
1192478348 M * AStorm dowdle: won't work during night or most of the year in this country
1192478349 M * JonB AStorm: if you can generate that you're ready for Tour de France
1192478363 M * AStorm JonB: I didn't say constant 65 W :>
1192478386 M * JonB AStorm: okay
1192478397 M * AStorm probably 30W average would suffice
1192478436 M * JonB ok
1192478448 M * AStorm 1,5A at 16V
1192478453 M * AStorm that's the battery drain
1192478475 M * AStorm w/o any special power saving :>
1192478490 M * arachnist pro-bikers are capable of generating ~100W
1192478522 M * AStorm I probably can go down to 1A at 16V easily
1192478541 M * AStorm to charge the battery though, I'd need more :>
1192478650 M * AStorm that's why 30W average
1192478660 M * AStorm it should be enough to charge the battery slowly
1192478690 M * JonB arachnist: only if they cheat and use drugs
1192478786 M * AStorm how many kJ are in 4800 mAh?
1192478787 M * arachnist JonB: the man that travelled across canal la manche(sp?) in a muscle-propelled plane wasn't on drugs, and afair it was estimated that he needed to generate ~100W
1192478795 Q * coderanger_ Quit: coderanger_
1192478831 M * AStorm I only need a bit less than half of that power
1192478837 M * AStorm should be possible
1192478873 M * JonB arachnist: someone did that?
1192478879 M * wam JonB: I'm too stupid. Checkinstall says: "/usr/bin/install: setting permissions for /lib/libvserver.so.0.0.0: No such file or directory -- and stops shortly after.
1192478882 M * arachnist JonB: yup
1192478889 M * arachnist JonB: several years ago
1192478898 M * AStorm wam: hahaha
1192478898 M * JonB wam: debian stale?
1192478903 M * wam ubuntu gusty
1192478926 M * JonB wam: which checkinstall version?
1192478938 M * wam 1.5.1
1192478939 J * oliwel ~mail-at-o@ppp-62-245-163-79.dynamic.mnet-online.de
1192478940 M * wam 1.6.1
1192478996 M * wam JonB: I'm supposed to call "./configure --prefix=/" and then checkinstall -D ?
1192478999 Q * Julius Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192479024 M * JonB wam: you definately have to run configure first
1192479034 M * JonB wam: but maybe not with that prefix
1192479052 M * wam JonB: maybe /usr..
1192479055 M * wam I'll try.
1192479072 M * daniel_hozac note that you could get a .deb from debian and just rebuild that...
1192479122 J * coderanger_ ~coderange@ae-lally-green-46.dynamic2.rpi.edu
1192479311 J * Julius ~julius@p57B24FE1.dip.t-dialin.net
1192479420 M * wam daniel_hozac: the ubuntu util-vserver in gusty is not rebuildable due to unmet dependencies.
1192479435 M * daniel_hozac i meant more like sid.
1192479444 M * wam ;)
1192479467 M * daniel_hozac besides, you'll need a fixed dietlibc first.
1192479479 M * daniel_hozac otherwise your own packages are going to end up just as broken as Ubuntu's.
1192479490 M * wam daniel_hozac: ubuntu has a broken dietlibc?!
1192479513 M * daniel_hozac yes.
1192479519 M * daniel_hozac that's what breaks util-vserver.
1192479549 M * mnemoc debian's dietlibc_0.30-7 is broken
1192479564 M * daniel_hozac in what way?
1192479610 M * mnemoc Pape imported from fefe's an snapshot with a broken printf
1192479637 J * AlanCox ~Linus@bl7-134-134.dsl.telepac.pt
1192479656 M * daniel_hozac that shouldn't affect the utils though.
1192479679 M * mnemoc i noticed because it broke modinfo for me
1192479736 M * wam does checkinstall require root?
1192479755 M * daniel_hozac i'd assume so.
1192479783 M * wam aaah ;)
1192479881 N * AlanCox L1nus
1192479901 N * L1nus Linus
1192480032 Q * Julius Remote host closed the connection
1192481012 Q * DavidS Quit: Leaving.
1192481358 M * wam is there an alternative to checkinstall which is also so easy? I'm driving nuts with this tool...
1192481378 M * daniel_hozac i don't see why you can't just get the Debian source.
1192481387 M * wam daniel_hozac: because I have ubuntu
1192481394 M * daniel_hozac so?
1192481397 M * wam hmm
1192481402 M * daniel_hozac it's a _source_ package.
1192481412 M * wam yeah
1192481428 M * wam I wanted a recipie for straight-edge.
1192481432 M * wam but maybe
1192481436 M * wam that's too much
1192481493 M * daniel_hozac sid typically has new releases within days.
1192481495 Q * oliwel Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.7/2007092022]
1192481657 Q * dna Quit: Verlassend
1192481982 Q * balbir Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192482023 Q * JonB Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
1192482683 Q * bonbons Quit: Leaving
1192483108 J * Aiken ~james@ppp121-45-206-11.lns1.bne1.internode.on.net
1192483546 J * brc bruce@megarapido.cliquerapido.com.br
1192483761 Q * wam Quit: Verlassend
1192484062 Q * ema Quit: leaving
1192484601 J * Pazzo ~ugelt@sadsl-246059.rol.raiffeisen.net
1192484738 Q * Pazzo Remote host closed the connection
1192485312 M * Bertl okay, off to bed now .. have a good one everyone!
1192485317 N * Bertl Bertl_zZ
1192485350 M * epicbjorn nite Bertl_zZ :)
1192485441 Q * coderanger_ Quit: coderanger_
1192485733 Q * larsivi Quit: Konversation terminated!
1192486049 J * coderanger ~coderange@kantrn.stu.rpi.edu
1192486084 P * coderanger 
1192486226 M * dowdle Does anyone know if Linux-VServer will work with SELinux?  I'm not really trying to do it... but I was wondering if it was a technical issue... or really one of avoiding the complexity of making SELinux rulesets for VPSes?
1192486900 Q * ntrs_ Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1192487158 P * Yvo 
1192487371 M * daniel_hozac with the appropriate policy, it should be fine.
1192487818 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: That's what I thought.
1192487847 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: Does Debian 4 support SELinux or is that coming in the next release?  Or am I having a brain fart?
1192487858 M * daniel_hozac i have no idea.
1192487878 M * daniel_hozac two areas i don't really care about mixed in one question... :)
1192487927 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: Oh, you are a Gentooer?
1192487935 M * daniel_hozac no.
1192487957 M * daniel_hozac i'm Fedora and CentOS.
1192487982 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: Oh, cool. I had no idea.  Have you joined the CentOS virtualization SIG mailing list yet?
1192488023 M * daniel_hozac no.
1192488027 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: Today I've been harping on OpenVZ... trying to get them to add it to Addons or Extras as an official part of CentOS but I'm guessing you could do the same thing for Linux-VServer.
1192488060 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: One difference might be though... the OpenVZ guys use a stock RHEL kernel to build against for their RHEL based kernels.
1192488077 M * daniel_hozac right, i don't want to.
1192488120 M * daniel_hozac i'm running 2.6.22.9-vs2.3.0.27...
1192488158 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: At least with the 2.6 kernels, the RHEL kernel is a lot closer to vanilla than in 2.4 or the Red Hat Linux days.
1192488168 M * daniel_hozac i know.
1192488173 M * daniel_hozac that's not the problem.
1192488185 M * daniel_hozac the problem is that RHEL is stuck on 2.6.18.
1192488195 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: Oh, duh.  Yeah.  
1192488212 M * dowdle And if done right you'd support RHEL4 too and then you'd be stuck in 2.6.9 days.
1192488215 Q * hparker Remote host closed the connection
1192488228 M * daniel_hozac which i have no interest in doing.
1192488241 M * dowdle But then again, they do backport some stuff (mostly drivers?) for those.
1192488254 M * daniel_hozac i'm quite happy with my external repo.
1192488287 M * daniel_hozac (granted, it's still missing a few things, like lm_sensors)
1192488291 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: Understood.  I would not think of adding an additional workload to you guys unless I could somehow help... which I can't.
1192488325 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: I'm glad to hear I'm not the only RHEL/CentOS/Fedora person in Linux-VServer land.
1192488358 M * daniel_hozac you hadn't noticed that Fedora and CentOS are the distributions that are the most supported by the utils?
1192488431 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: Considering I'm not sure how the tools work, no... I haven't noticed.
1192488442 M * dowdle I assume you mean with the build -yum method?
1192488463 M * daniel_hozac and vhashify, vunify, general ease-of-use...
1192488482 M * daniel_hozac i.e. rpmbuild -ta.
1192488538 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: I only created CentOS guests lately so it was (perhaps) easy to overlook.
1192488542 M * daniel_hozac the external package management is also only supported for yum.
1192488554 M * daniel_hozac or, well, rpm.
1192488580 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: So, is there a Linux-VServer kernel that I can build with rpmbuild -ta from a src rpm?
1192488602 M * daniel_hozac http://rpm.hozac.com/dhozac/centos/5/vserver/
1192488631 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: Is there a horrible list of dependencies?
1192488645 M * daniel_hozac for what?
1192488683 M * dowdle For building utils and yum?  Like a zillion devel libraries that I might not have installed already?
1192488694 M * daniel_hozac mock my friend.
1192488717 M * daniel_hozac and i have no way of knowing what you have installed already.
1192488759 M * daniel_hozac just check the buildreqs...
1192488768 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: Pardon my ignorance with building from src rpms.  I meant generally.  With binary packages yum handles all of the deps.  Does it do that for src rpms?
1192488773 M * dowdle OK.
1192488781 M * daniel_hozac it can, yes.
1192488813 M * dowdle So, any chance the CentOS 5 kernel you built a binary package for would work on CentOS 4?  
1192488829 M * daniel_hozac sure...
1192488845 M * daniel_hozac CentOS 4 would likely need far more userspace updates though.
1192488871 M * dowdle I ask because the OpenVZ guys say you can use RHEL4/RHEL5 based kernel on either... but I'm not sure who would want a RHEL4 based kernel on RHEL/CentOS 5.
1192488977 M * dowdle daniel_hozac: But hey, it might be an option for a binary kernel release for CentOS 4.
1192489014 M * daniel_hozac i don't have any CentOS 4 boxes, and i don't like releasing completely untested things.
1192489051 M * dowdle Understood sir.
1192489104 M * dowdle So, do you guys maintain multiple kernel trees?  I mean, do you plan on supporting multiple kernel releases for a given length of time or do you mostly move from kernel release to kernel release slightly behind mainline?
1192489133 M * daniel_hozac 2.2.0.4 was released for 2.6.20, 2.6.21 and 2.6.22...
1192489143 M * daniel_hozac 2.2.0.3 for 2.6.19 as well.
1192489197 M * dowdle Is there a lot of work in that?  ...or does the Linux-VServer patch not conflict so much with the differences in those kernels?
1192489214 M * dowdle I don't think I worded that so well.
1192489254 M * daniel_hozac every update is just a small incremental patch. most of the time, fixes are not kernel specific.
1192489263 M * dowdle Does the mainline kernel change in ways where you have to make a lot of changes to Linux-VServer?
1192489268 M * dowdle I think you answered my question.
1192489278 M * daniel_hozac not really...
1192489288 M * daniel_hozac e.g. 2.6.23 has a lot changes.
1192489298 M * dowdle But I do realize you guys adopt changes related to os virtualization like in paravirtual_ops?
1192489316 M * daniel_hozac Linux-VServer is not para-virtualization at all, so no.
1192489347 M * dowdle Ok, ok.  I know it wasn't para-virtualization... but i thought that that function set offered some things used by all virtualization methods.
1192489347 M * daniel_hozac 2.6.19 forced the early retirement of 2.0 and the release of 2.2.
1192489370 M * daniel_hozac no, we don't use it at all.
1192489377 M * dowdle ok.
1192489411 M * dowdle I continue to gather pieces to the puzzle. :)
1192489459 J * wenchien ~wenchien@59-105-176-102.adsl.static.seed.net.tw
1192489590 M * zbyniu dowdle: if you want play with selinux & vserver, you may need some little patches
1192489597 M * zbyniu ie http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/SOURCES/libselinux-vcontext-selinux.patch
1192489947 J * hparker ~hparker@linux.homershut.net
1192490307 M * dowdle zbyniu: Thanks for the info.
1192490317 P * dowdle Time for me to have to cut out of here.
1192491668 N * bastiaan1 bastiaan_
1192492488 Q * rgl Quit: Enough