1181347203 M * meetra oldgetrlimit(RLIMIT_CORE, 0xfffffb0d980) = -1 ENOSYS (Function not implemented)
1181347217 M * slacker101 daniel_hozac: whihc one would you do? im trying to do the least amount of work 
1181347223 N * Bertl_oO Bertl
1181347295 M * Bertl so we narrowed the issue down to oldgetrlimit?
1181347299 M * daniel_hozac slacker101: in which case it's probably best to get an updated kernel.
1181347323 M * slacker101 that requires compiling ........kinda iffy compiling 
1181347337 M * slacker101 make a mistake and my server is f-ed :P
1181347374 M * Bertl hehe, better hope that gcc doesn't make a mistake then :)
1181347406 M * slacker101 i mean
1181347415 M * slacker101 i never compiled a kerrnel before
1181347422 M * meetra Bertl: stracing exec-ulimit gives me that
1181347427 M * slacker101 is their anything i need to watch out for ?
1181347446 M * Bertl slacker101: yes, but I think you should prepare for switching back to an older kernel
1181347456 M * daniel_hozac slacker101: or you could just take a newer one from Debian.
1181347464 M * Bertl slacker101: if that is ensured, then it's not really problematic
1181347468 M * slacker101 daniel_hozac: i did apt-get install 
1181347472 M * slacker101 and this is what i got
1181347496 M * slacker101 i installed vserver through that 
1181347506 M * daniel_hozac meetra: #define sys_old_getrlimit sys_ni_syscall
1181347506 M * arachnist anyone succeded in "merging" rsbac and vserver patches?
1181347508 M * Bertl slacker101: there are packages out there with really recent versions/patches (for debian)
1181347516 M * daniel_hozac arachnist: not recently, AFAIK.
1181347522 M * slacker101 they are in etch 4.0 yet i guess 
1181347533 M * daniel_hozac slacker101: nor are they likely to ever be.
1181347537 M * meetra daniel_hozac: on exec-ulimit.c ?
1181347548 M * daniel_hozac meetra: no, in the kernel.
1181347559 M * slacker101 daniel_hozac: how would o go about installing it ?
1181347560 M * daniel_hozac meetra: so i guess that's expected.
1181347568 M * daniel_hozac slacker101: dpkg -i?
1181347581 M * daniel_hozac meetra: you just have to tell dietlibc that.
1181347606 M * Bertl it looked like a dietlibc issue in the first place
1181347620 M * slacker101 daniel_hozac: what about the old vserver ?
1181347638 M * daniel_hozac what?
1181347639 M * meetra #ifdef CONFIG_PPC64
1181347639 M * meetra #define sys_sigpending sys_ni_syscall
1181347639 M * meetra #define sys_old_getrlimit sys_ni_syscall
1181347639 M * meetra #endif
1181347643 M * meetra in the kernel...
1181347657 M * slacker101 daniel_hozac: the old version is installed 
1181347663 M * Bertl meetra: yep, means that ppc64 does not support sys_old_getrlimit
1181347674 M * daniel_hozac slacker101: which is good, no?
1181347678 M * meetra oohh, okay
1181347683 M * slacker101 daniel_hozac: will it jus update ?
1181347688 M * slacker101 or od i need to remove that first ?
1181347690 M * Bertl meetra: so dietlibc should be using the new one ...
1181347695 M * daniel_hozac slacker101: you can have them both.
1181347703 M * slacker101 how ?
1181347711 M * slacker101 =wont that caue problems ?
1181347719 M * daniel_hozac why would it?
1181347726 M * slacker101 2 versions of vserver ?
1181347745 P * stefani I'm Parting (the water)
1181347746 M * slacker101 an old one and a new one 
1181347755 M * Bertl contrary to common belief, you can have more than one kernel :)
1181347769 M * slacker101 i didnt know that 
1181347775 M * Bertl (installed, not running that is :)
1181347795 M * slacker101 but i would prefer to keep things simple and only have the newest version of vserver
1181347815 M * daniel_hozac surely not before you know it works?
1181347835 M * slacker101 by the time i didnt know it would be to late correct ?
1181347852 M * daniel_hozac ... only if you remove the old kernel before testing...
1181347869 M * slacker101 i mean
1181347880 M * slacker101 what will it do jus use the other one as a backup
1181347900 M * daniel_hozac if you tell it to.
1181347902 M * meetra daniel_hozac, Bertl: do you know the new syscall?
1181347925 M * daniel_hozac meetra: getrlimit :)
1181347949 M * meetra yeah but, number?
1181347954 M * daniel_hozac (called ugetrlimit in dietlibc, i think)
1181347963 M * slacker101 oh man now im really confused 
1181347966 M * daniel_hozac should be 190, unless my math is off.
1181348172 M * slacker101 i should prolly jus re install
1181348172 M * meetra where in the world do I see that?
1181348176 M * slacker101 and not use  debian
1181348201 M * daniel_hozac meetra: the numbers? include/asm-powerpc/systbl.h
1181348206 Q * Aiken Quit: Leaving
1181348214 M * daniel_hozac line number - 6
1181348291 M * daniel_hozac (in the kernel i'm looking at. the 6 is just for the header and starting at 0)
1181348316 M * Bertl meetra: but careful, you cannot simply change the definition in dietlibc to use that one, as it is very likely to have different arguments
1181348347 M * meetra 190.
1181348370 M * Bertl meetra: instead, I would look for patches submitted to fefe which address this specific issue (maybe for other archs) and apply/copy the fix
1181348410 M * meetra I'll check that
1181348421 M * meetra and it's called ugetrlimit like daniel said
1181348494 M * daniel_hozac Bertl: IIRC the only difference is that oldgetrlimit returns 0x7fffffff for unlimited, while getrlimit returns ~0.
1181348533 M * slacker101 daniel_hozac: i am going to compile vserver from scratch i guess 
1181348586 M * slacker101 i hope it works 
1181348627 Q * Baby Quit: goodnight!!!
1181348659 M * slacker101 but man thats gonna set me back like 2 days 
1181348665 M * slacker101 all this configuring
1181348666 M * slacker101 bllllllllllah
1181348700 M * daniel_hozac and the reason you're not taking the easy way is...?
1181348713 M * slacker101 easy way is what ?
1181348728 M * slacker101 could i jus go get the debian package for the neew kerrnel and replace the kerrnels ?
1181348767 M * Bertl daniel_hozac: really? for that a new syscall was done?
1181348798 M * daniel_hozac Bertl: the old one is just for compat on certain arches.
1181348810 M * daniel_hozac but yes :)
1181348812 Q * onox Quit: leaving
1181348843 M * slacker101 daniel_hozac: could i jus do that ?
1181348850 M * daniel_hozac slacker101: sure.
1181348858 M * daniel_hozac that's what i've been saying all along...
1181348860 M * slacker101 jus replace the kerrnels 
1181348865 M * meetra CVS has the same syscalls
1181348867 M * daniel_hozac not necessarily replace.
1181348873 M * slacker101 oh ?
1181348884 M * daniel_hozac as we already said, they can peacefully coexist.
1181348898 M * slacker101 i dont see how ;)
1181348918 M * daniel_hozac you just instal it. what's the problem?
1181348926 M * slacker101 so i jus install the new .deb
1181348933 M * slacker101 whats it going to do to the old kerrnel ?
1181348933 M * daniel_hozac you're still just running _one_ kernel.
1181348939 M * daniel_hozac nothing whatsoever.
1181348952 M * slacker101 rename it or something right ?
1181348963 M * daniel_hozac no.
1181348968 M * slacker101 how can 2 coest with the same name 
1181348968 M * daniel_hozac why would it?
1181348976 M * daniel_hozac they don't have the same name.
1181348980 M * Bertl slacker101: they have different names
1181348987 M * slacker101 oo0oo
1181348989 M * daniel_hozac the version is embedded in all of them.
1181348990 M * Bertl slacker101: because they are different kernel versions
1181348999 M * slacker101 so how does it know which one to boot ?
1181349005 M * daniel_hozac you tell it.
1181349012 M * slacker101 in what file ? :P
1181349019 M * slacker101 sorry just never did this kind of stuff before 
1181349021 M * Bertl in the bootload config file
1181349025 M * Bertl *loader
1181349028 M * slacker101 ahhhhhhh
1181349031 M * slacker101 like lilo ?
1181349034 M * slacker101 yes hmm
1181349039 M * Bertl or by selecting the proper one when lilo comes up
1181349050 M * slacker101 can i jus get the kerrnel package ?
1181349058 M * Bertl (or grub or whatever bootloader you use)
1181349060 M * slacker101 and not have to reinstall anything else ?
1181349064 M * Bertl sure
1181349069 M * slacker101 coo coo co
1181349077 M * slacker101 where can i get the new debian packages from
1181349085 M * daniel_hozac ftp.debian.org/debian
1181349102 M * slacker101 i meant
1181349105 M * slacker101 for vserver
1181349106 M * Bertl or a local mirror
1181349109 M * slacker101 the newer kerrnel
1181349119 M * slacker101 of vserver
1181349122 M * daniel_hozac they're there.
1181349126 M * slacker101 o?
1181349158 M * slacker101 what secction ?
1181349164 M * slacker101 unstable ? testing ?
1181349168 M * daniel_hozac sure.
1181349173 M * slacker101 which :P ?
1181349182 M * daniel_hozac either one should do the trick.
1181349240 M * daniel_hozac or not, looks like testing is still stuck on 2.6.18.
1181349254 M * slacker101 so where do i want ?
1181349262 M * slacker101 also wheres the dir with the packages hmm ?
1181349307 M * daniel_hozac pool's got them all.
1181349404 M * slacker101 ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/v/vserver-debiantools
1181349405 M * slacker101 ?
1181349408 M * slacker101 this one ?
1181349432 M * daniel_hozac no.
1181349439 M * daniel_hozac does that look like a kernel to you?
1181349445 M * slacker101 im sorry man
1181349453 M * daniel_hozac just look at what your current kernel is named, and find a newer one.
1181349454 M * slacker101 ive used slackware for the last few years 
1181349465 M * daniel_hozac did tools mean kernel there? :)
1181349679 M * slacker101 daniel_hozac: could you link me man i cant find it 
1181349760 M * daniel_hozac so what's your current kernel named?
1181349851 M * slacker101 Linux test1 2.6.18-4-vserver-686
1181349863 M * daniel_hozac i meant the package.
1181349887 M * Bertl well, he probably doesn't know .. came with apt :)
1181350030 M * slacker101 came with apt-get yes
1181350038 M * slacker101 whatever is the newest in debian etch
1181350055 M * daniel_hozac newest says nothing about the name, just about the version...
1181350074 M * daniel_hozac what were you looking for? i told you to look for something with a similar name...
1181350148 M * slacker101 \i need a newer kerrnel
1181350180 M * Bertl and you will get one :)
1181350211 M * slacker101 i jus ran the apt command 
1181350214 M * slacker101 and this is what i got 
1181350319 M * Bertl I guess you deb was: linux-image-2.6.18-4-vserver-686
1181350342 M * slacker101 guess so where i can i download the newest one :)
1181350343 M * Bertl now look for a similar one with a newer version
1181350355 M * slacker101 i dont even see where this package is 
1181350370 M * slacker101 i am looking through this repo for like 15 mins 
1181350560 M * Bertl daniel_hozac: hmm, the official pool seems only to have 18-5 or 21
1181350579 M * Bertl daniel_hozac: and a 2.6.21 kernel is probably not the best idea, because of udev
1181350623 M * daniel_hozac hmm? i thought the sysfs breakage + the tty problems were the biggest issues.
1181350638 M * daniel_hozac so udev is broken with 21 too?
1181350666 M * Bertl the problem is, the way how udev works changed slightly in 2.6.21
1181350674 M * slacker101 o boy
1181350681 M * daniel_hozac ah.
1181350682 M * slacker101 this means im Fd right ?
1181350690 M * Bertl at least it caused me to fixup quite a number of things on Mandriva .. not sure about debian thoguh
1181350695 M * Bertl *though
1181350710 A * slacker101 cries
1181350717 M * Bertl slacker101: nope, IIRC, micah and waldi have all kind of in-between kernels
1181350743 M * slacker101 what you mean ?
1181350745 M * slacker101 who is that ?
1181350823 M * Bertl daniel_hozac, slacker101: btw, the upgrade is still because of bind?
1181350832 M * slacker101 yep
1181350843 M * slacker101 it wont start
1181350851 M * slacker101 capset thing
1181350869 M * Bertl well, rebuilding that package would probably be simpler
1181350891 M * Bertl putting that aside, wasn't the capset stuff backported by waldi or so?
1181350906 M * Bertl i.e. maybe the 2.6.18-5 kernel already has that?
1181350919 M * Bertl (just guessing here)
1181350940 M * daniel_hozac i doubt it.
1181350967 M * slacker101 jus rebuild ?
1181350970 M * slacker101 i remove bind 
1181350986 M * Bertl daniel_hozac: at least I remember that 'somebody' wanted to do that
1181351037 M * daniel_hozac i think there has been quite a bit of wanting, not a lot of doing, as usual ;)
1181351079 M * Bertl slacker101: you have a bunch of options (as already mentioned several times): you can run it as root (not _that_ secure, but it is probably fine), you can rebuild the debian package with the cap system disabled, you can look for such a package (which I'm almost certain that it exists somewhere)
1181351148 M * slacker101 Bertl: it wont work running as root either 
1181351162 M * Bertl how so?
1181351172 M * slacker101 thats what i was doin g same problem
1181351268 M * Bertl what bind version is that?
1181351291 M * slacker101 bind9
1181351295 M * slacker101 maybe not 
1181351296 M * slacker101 im not sure
1181351303 M * Bertl yeah, 9.x.y?
1181351303 M * slacker101 what would you suggest?
1181351345 M * Bertl for example, paul sladen is keeping debian packages for bind (fixed)
1181351345 J * besonen_mobile ~besonen_m@71-220-233-253.eugn.qwest.net
1181351347 M * Bertl http://www.paul.sladen.org/debian/bind9.nocapset/
1181351372 M * daniel_hozac those look more or less ancient.
1181351372 M * Bertl so you could try to install the http://www.paul.sladen.org/debian/bind9.nocapset/bind9_9.2.4-1.nocapset_i386.deb
1181351398 M * daniel_hozac http://linux-vserver.derjohn.de/bind9-packages/ is somewhat more recent.
1181351538 M * slacker101 Bertl: i will jus run it as root 
1181351540 M * slacker101 right ?
1181351551 M * slacker101 i forget where do i erase that bind user option ?
1181351558 M * Bertl if you use one of those packages, you do not need to do that
1181351589 M * Bertl they are already 'fixed' and behave fine inside a guest
1181351598 M * slacker101 ah
1181351599 M * daniel_hozac (even with an older kernel)
1181351603 M * slacker101 ok 
1181351628 M * Bertl well, newer kernels only work around the bind brokeness
1181351672 M * daniel_hozac sure.
1181351744 M * slacker101 yay
1181351746 M * slacker101 now
1181351755 M * slacker101 i got to deal with my litttle knoledge of debian
1181351770 M * slacker101 installing manaully  is making me install required packages 
1181351814 M * slacker101 abyway i can say download depeencies from dpkg -i ?
1181351965 M * Bertl well, if you had bind installed, there shouldn't be new dependanccies ...
1181352104 M * slacker101 i removed it
1181352107 M * slacker101 Bertl: ^^
1181352144 M * mattzerah i dont know much (anythnig?) about debian, but just removing a package shouldn't remove the dependancies would it ?
1181352193 M * slacker101 it does
1181352204 M * mattzerah wow, bugger
1181352219 M * daniel_hozac so, install it again?
1181352279 M * daniel_hozac or, i don't know, simply apt-get the deps?
1181353070 M * slacker101 im depressed
1181353080 M * slacker101 worked so hard on this and still cannnn't get it 
1181353204 M * Bertl well, why not install the original package again?
1181353217 M * Bertl then only replace it with the fixed one?
1181353229 M * slacker101 is it possible to replace ?
1181353265 M * Bertl well, I guess you have been hard(ly) working on that .. maybe have a look at the debian documentation?
1181353293 M * Bertl (or simply join a debian irc channel, they should know how to wield apt and dpkg)
1181353306 M * slacker101 thatswhy i like slackware
1181353309 M * slacker101 becuase i know it 
1181353333 M * mattzerah can i ask the obvious and ask why your not using slackware ?
1181353345 M * slacker101 yea i know 
1181353353 M * slacker101 cause a few of my users wanted debian
1181353401 M * mattzerah but if your running vserver, cant you just make a (temporary?) slackware guest to run bind in until you have it worked out in debian?
1181353424 M * slacker101 i was making a custom distro for my users mattzerah
1181353435 M * slacker101 but all my linux experince resides in slackware
1181353439 M * Bertl besdies that, putting a debian guest on slackware should be trivial
1181353445 M * Bertl *besides
1181353451 M * slacker101 and these apt-get's and yums and etc etc all bloat your system
1181353461 M * mattzerah bloat? how?
1181353479 M * slacker101 because you dont need things you dont use 
1181353498 M * mattzerah okay, so yum doesn't bloat my system cause i use it all the time :)
1181353513 M * slacker101 well it bloats slowly
1181353529 M * mattzerah surely you *can* have a debian system without apt-get ?
1181353541 M * mattzerah but as i said, i have no knowledge of debian 
1181353541 M * Bertl mattzerah: no wonder with the speed of yum, that you have to use it _all_the_time_ (just kidding :)
1181353545 M * slacker101 yes i know well slackware still has a package system
1181353549 M * mattzerah hahah :)
1181353567 M * slacker101 it jus doesnt have dependcies
1181353591 M * mattzerah imho if it done'st keep track of dependancies, then its not a complete packaing system
1181353591 M * slacker101 half the crap debian makes you install i will bet half no one will use
1181353596 A * mattzerah likes dependancy tracking
1181353596 M * slacker101 yet it still makes you install
1181353606 M * slacker101 it makes things easier
1181353610 M * slacker101 but at what cost i dont know 
1181353622 M * mattzerah surly you have the option of building packages from souce
1181353636 M * mattzerah if you dont want to use a package manager
1181353696 M * mattzerah maybe you could try buidlign bind for source and getting it to work that way - abd build your own debian package with no dependancies
1181353697 M * mattzerah ?
1181353722 M * mattzerah if you need to use apt-get for your users anyway
1181353839 M * mattzerah just a suggetsion
1181353849 M * mattzerah please dont hate me
1181353851 M * mattzerah :)
1181354322 A * mattzerah thinks he broke the channel
1181354323 M * mattzerah :/
1181354388 M * slacker101 im here
1181354398 M * slacker101 mattzerah: ^
1181354403 M * slacker101 of course
1181354404 M * slacker101 but
1181354412 M * slacker101 i like slackwares rc scripts too ;)
1181354419 M * slacker101 im jus a slackware fan boy i guess
1181354456 M * mattzerah i would have the same problems if i tried to move away from my distro, so i do understand
1181354465 M * slacker101 whihc distro you use ?
1181354468 M * slacker101 fedora ?
1181354494 M * mattzerah originally redhat 6.2 - then to redhat 7, then to fedora, now i've moved on to centos :)
1181354509 M * slacker101 same family
1181354513 M * mattzerah absolutly
1181354515 M * mattzerah hehe
1181354526 M * slacker101 ive jus used slackware since square one 
1181354529 M * slacker101 learned on slackware
1181354532 M * slacker101 raised on slackware
1181354547 M * mattzerah i tried slackware, but at the time redhat was just making their appearance, so i kinda got stuck with that
1181354569 M * slacker101 ive only been using nix for like 3 years 
1181354583 M * slacker101 server stuff jus recently i guess 
1181354588 M * slacker101 few months 
1181354588 M * mattzerah not that i cant change, but it does kinda what i need it to do, and everythnig else i can do myself, so i like it :)
1181354624 M * slacker101 yea
1181354630 M * slacker101 its like problem in slackware
1181354632 M * slacker101 FIXED
1181354636 M * slacker101 problem in debian 
1181354639 M * slacker101 +5hours 
1181354641 M * slacker101 fixed
1181354643 M * mattzerah haha
1181354647 M * mattzerah yupz
1181354657 M * slacker101 and my users requested
1181354664 M * slacker101 oh we would love a custom distro
1181354682 M * slacker101 that already had bind web server mysql etc
1181354688 M * slacker101 with like a webmin kinda thing
1181354691 M * slacker101 so i agreed to make 
1181354704 M * mattzerah is there no solution for a slackware based distro for that ?
1181354713 M * slacker101 so i thought i would use debian to make the custom distro for them
1181354735 M * slacker101 well i thogught i would use debian so they would have updates made easy
1181354759 M * slacker101 slackware updates are pretty well not urgent 
1181354773 M * slacker101 kinda has the philosophy update when you need too 
1181354795 M * slacker101 but debian clikc a button and its all updated 
1181354804 M * slacker101 so i thought they would fair better with that 
1181354820 M * slacker101 but i still offer debian centos slackware as base distros 
1181354829 M * slacker101 but i thought a good custom debian distro would suit them good 
1181354830 M * mattzerah welcome to building a distro - thats what distributors do all the time - work out what updates a nessasary or useful and builds distributable updates for them in the distro specific platfor
1181354917 M * slacker101 yea 
1181354936 M * slacker101 well
1181354970 M * slacker101 i dunno
1181354976 M * slacker101 scratch the debian distro lol
1181354995 M * slacker101 i will just offer the slackware customized one 
1181355006 M * slacker101 i was going to offer it as managed as well
1181355047 M * slacker101 so if i was going to offer managed vps's then i would prolly want to use slackware
1181355159 M * mattzerah i would personally stick with what i knew, especialy if i was offering a solution to clients (who were paying me)
1181355170 M * mattzerah but thats me :)
1181355189 M * mattzerah if however it was a personal project, i would say dont give up :)
1181355250 M * slacker101 itsn ot personal
1181355253 M * slacker101 more like business 
1181355262 M * slacker101 mattzerah: where you located ?
1181355268 M * mattzerah australia
1181355275 M * slacker101 ah
1181355367 M * slacker101 mattzerah: how lomg you been using linux ?
1181355387 M * mattzerah whoa - ummm since i would guess 1998 ?
1181355390 M * mattzerah 10 years
1181355410 M * slacker101 ah
1181355414 M * slacker101 me only like 3 
1181355451 M * arachnist huh
1181355471 M * slacker101 but im also a young one too
1181355477 M * arachnist for me it's almoast 8 or 7 years now
1181355487 M * slacker101 well not that young but still kinda young 
1181355492 M * arachnist and i'm only 20
1181355498 M * slacker101 << 19 
1181355559 M * slacker101 i still gotta do my donations to the vserver project 
1181355772 M * slacker101 forget this ...........just going to offer base distros 
1181355795 M * mattzerah hehe, thats basically the answer i come to every time i look at making my own distro :)
1181355798 M * slacker101 i will make a customized slackware if they really want it 
1181355821 M * slacker101 40 bucks a month aint worth thyis trouble 
1181355845 M * slacker101 aybe when i hit my 100 user mark 
1181355859 M * mattzerah so where are you based slacker101 
1181355872 M * slacker101 Miami Florida USA -> south eastern
1181355880 M * slacker101 near the bottom
1181355888 M * mattzerah and you have your own hosting busines ?
1181355896 M * slacker101 VPS hosting yea 
1181355902 M * mattzerah very cool
1181355909 M * slacker101 only hosting left that actually has money in it 
1181355918 M * slacker101 shared hosting done for 
1181355928 M * slacker101 dedicated cooll if you got alot of money
1181355938 M * slacker101 VPS fits right in between :)
1181355956 M * mattzerah i'de love to do that here, but data is too expensive, and co-location is a nightmare, and owning your own decent location with decent bandwidth is through the roof expensive
1181355974 M * slacker101 very cheap here 
1181355983 M * mattzerah do you have your own location ?
1181355989 M * slacker101 i use colocation
1181356006 M * slacker101 only got 1 server right now though :) well 2 only using 1 
1181356008 M * mattzerah i'm looking into it soon, but its very expensive here :/
1181356023 M * slacker101 80.00 usd per month here 
1181356031 M * slacker101 3 TB of band 
1181356043 M * mattzerah yea, i only wish, hehe
1181356045 M * slacker101 no 5
1181356058 M * slacker101 thats why i got into this 
1181356083 M * slacker101 each customer 40-70.00 usd depending on the package ..........can fit like 20 users on a server normally 
1181356098 M * slacker101 each user 80-100.00 usd per month ish
1181356101 M * slacker101 and everyones happy
1181356116 M * slacker101 each server
1181356118 M * mattzerah you going to cluster the servers, or just offer accounts on different servers ?
1181356135 M * slacker101 different servers will be cool
1181356162 M * slacker101 atleadt until i hit my 100 user mark
1181356199 J * Aiken ~james@ppp121-45-236-229.lns1.bne4.internode.on.net
1181356325 M * slacker101 100 users say each user is paying 50.00 averaged 5 k a month and get that monthly 
1181356340 M * slacker101 and i will use that money to fund other stuff 
1181356388 Q * shedi Quit: Leaving
1181356571 M * slacker101 mattzerah: you work ?
1181356577 M * mattzerah yup
1181356581 M * mattzerah i'm a programmer
1181356646 M * mattzerah trying to be a profesional poker player, but not going that well at the moment :)
1181356658 M * mattzerah i'm $2.10 down for the day, DOH!
1181356663 M * mattzerah hehe
1181356669 M * mattzerah very high stakes :)
1181357004 M * slacker101 lol
1181357015 M * slacker101 mattzerah: how old are you ? in school 
1181357018 M * slacker101 lol jus curious 
1181357031 M * mattzerah no, 33
1181357036 M * slacker101 o damn
1181357041 M * slacker101 still young :P
1181357047 M * mattzerah yea yea :p
1181357061 M * slacker101 you wwre a teen whe i was born
1181357064 M * slacker101 were*
1181357087 M * mattzerah thats alright, i dont really have a hangup about my age :p
1181357124 M * slacker101 yea
1181357132 M * slacker101 im jus out of highschool
1181357221 M * slacker101 and trying to get my little vserver stuff working good 
1181357230 M * slacker101 so i cna use it as a back pay for a few other things 
1181357276 M * mattzerah very good :)
1181357308 M * slacker101 hows AU ?
1181357359 M * mattzerah very good (but cold)
1181357384 M * mattzerah we've had rain (very rare for australia) the past few days, so thats been fantastic
1181357413 M * slacker101 cold ?
1181357427 M * mattzerah its winter here
1181357433 M * slacker101 iooo
1181357438 M * mattzerah its only really hit cold in the past day or two
1181357444 M * slacker101 ooo
1181357456 M * slacker101 ive never really saw cold weather around here 
1181357469 M * slacker101 sometimes in the morning it will be kinda chilly
1181357478 M * mattzerah its not snowing here, but i've got my heater on :)
1181357548 M * Bertl okay, off to bed now ... have a good one everyone! cya!
1181357552 M * slacker101 i dont own a heater 
1181357555 M * mattzerah night Bertl 
1181357556 N * Bertl Bertl_zZ
1181357559 M * slacker101 Bertl: cya thanks for the help too 
1181357637 M * slacker101 mattzerah: i dont think its ever once snowed here
1181357668 M * mattzerah never here either i suppose - but i have only been around for a few years
1181357713 M * slacker101 ah
1181357724 M * slacker101 your nopt from AU ?
1181357744 M * mattzerah yes - but australia has been here for a LOT longer than me :p
1181357786 M * mattzerah well, i lost my poker game, so sill $2.10 down, damn it!
1181357789 M * mattzerah hehe
1181357804 M * mattzerah off fora walk, have a good day guys
1181357814 M * mattzerah slacker101: good luck with your bind!
1181357822 M * slacker101 installing slackware now :)
1181366739 Q * zLinux[] Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181366970 J * zLinux[] ~zLinux@88.213.34.101
1181368354 J * DoberMann_ ~james@AToulouse-156-1-136-19.w90-30.abo.wanadoo.fr
1181368459 Q * DoberMann[ZZZzzz] Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181368783 Q * baldy charon.oftc.net venus.oftc.net
1181369066 J * baldy baldy@baldy.biz
1181370458 J * dna ~naucki@48-230-dsl.kielnet.net
1181374012 Q * Aiken Remote host closed the connection
1181374018 J * Aiken ~james@ppp121-45-236-229.lns1.bne4.internode.on.net
1181375333 Q * zLinux[] Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181375490 J * zLinux[] ~zLinux@88.213.35.249
1181375907 J * FireEgl FireEgl@4.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.c.d.4.8.0.c.5.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
1181376242 J * realer ~realer@e178112060.adsl.alicedsl.de
1181376265 M * realer hi
1181376281 M * realer got a question :)
1181376300 M * realer I want to mount a device inside a guest only - is this possible?
1181376989 N * DoberMann_ DoberMann
1181377414 Q * brcc_ Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181377814 Q * dna Quit: Verlassend
1181377897 J * brcc_ bruce@i.am.someasshole.com
1181377935 M * cehteh realer: yes ... but not *from* the guest
1181377955 M * cehteh unless you give it special privileges which might be dangerours
1181378009 M * cehteh there is a /etc/vservers/*/fstab where you can add per-guest mounts
1181378332 M * realer that did the trick, thank you
1181378367 M * realer how do I enable mount --bind within a guest?
1181378403 J * bonbons ~bonbons@158.64.110.113
1181378718 M * matti Morning.
1181379816 Q * nkukard Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181380220 J * tuxmania ~bonbons@158.64.111.91
1181380534 Q * bonbons Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181381405 N * tuxmania bonbons
1181382641 J * ema ~ema@rtfm.galliera.it
1181385222 Q * bonbons Quit: Leaving
1181385716 J * zLinux_ ~zLinux@88.213.33.110
1181385930 Q * zLinux[] Read error: Operation timed out
1181386144 Q * Aiken Quit: Leaving
1181387029 J * phedny ~mark@ip56538143.direct-adsl.nl
1181388762 J * FaUl immo@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de
1181390002 Q * FireEgl Read error: No route to host
1181391623 J * onox ~onox@kalfjeslab.demon.nl
1181391942 Q * ekc Read error: Operation timed out
1181392430 Q * realer 
1181393533 J * rob-84x^ rob@submarine.ath.cx
1181393790 J * bragon_ ~bragon@sam.geeknode.org
1181393883 Q * bragon Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181393983 J * shedi ~siggi@ftth-237-144.hive.is
1181394439 Q * ema Quit: leaving
1181395156 N * Bertl_zZ Bertl
1181395161 M * Bertl morning folks!
1181395293 M * onox good morning
1181396610 J * Baby ~miry@195.37.62.208
1181396770 M * Bertl wb Baby!
1181396994 M * Baby hi Bertl :)
1181397976 J * FireEgl FireEgl@4.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.c.d.4.8.0.c.5.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
1181398485 M * trippeh Bertl: Any idea when a 2.6.21-vs2.2.0-rc2 will be up?
1181398564 M * Bertl nope, but I guess soon ... should get to testing/improving on 2.6.21 this weekend
1181398593 M * trippeh Ok :)
1181398682 M * trippeh I wish this heatwave would go away.
1181398703 J * nkukard ~nkukard@vc-196-207-38-123.3g.vodacom.co.za
1181398758 M * Bertl wb nkukard!
1181398767 M * nkukard thanks Bertl ;)
1181399138 M * Bertl okay, translocating ... back in two hours or so ...
1181399166 N * Bertl Bertl_oO
1181399578 M * meetra Bertl_oO: i've switched the syscall and tested it... i think it's okay because I don't get the same error starting vserver but:
1181399578 M * meetra vattribute: vc_set_ccaps(): Interrupted system call
1181401308 J * _nkukard_ ~nkukard@dsl-240-10-115.telkomadsl.co.za
1181401322 Q * _nkukard_ 
1181401668 Q * nkukard Read error: Operation timed out
1181402062 J * SoftIce ~radio@vc-196-207-45-253.3g.vodacom.co.za
1181402066 M * SoftIce good day!
1181402067 M * SoftIce :)
1181402166 M * SoftIce who here is a debian guru? making a custom kernel on debian seems somewhat impossible for me. any good guide, why do I need initram's?
1181402221 M * FaUl you in general do not need initrams
1181402266 M * FaUl and creating kernels in debian is done with make_kpkg iirc
1181402273 M * SoftIce FaUl: can you explain quickly offhand what it is used for? and if like you say in general don't need it, do you have to disable it for it not to complain about it
1181402289 M * SoftIce http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Modify/CustomKernel
1181402299 M * SoftIce this is just 1 ugly guide, doing version renames, etc etc. 
1181402345 M * SoftIce i'd just prefure it make && make install && make bzImage && cp bzImage /boot && reboot :)
1181402358 M * SoftIce whats happening the world of kernel making?
1181402391 M * FaUl thats only if you want to change the installerkernel i guess
1181402411 M * SoftIce ahh
1181402415 M * FaUl you may just use you favorite install-method (in fact i nerver used make-kpkg ;-)
1181402461 M * SoftIce ye, make-kpkg --rootcmd fakeroot --initrd --append-to-version=-....... -image kernel-headers
1181402482 M * SoftIce tell me FaUl, is that append-to-version necessary for it to match something
1181402488 M * FaUl but if you like to roll out your kernel on more then one mashine you can use make menuconfig to configure and then run make-kpkg (out of the "kernel-package" package that you can apt-get install)
1181402488 M * SoftIce eg: does it have to have something like vs2-grsec, etc
1181402499 M * SoftIce or does it not matter if you append something to the kernel name?
1181402517 M * FaUl it's just for you to recognize what patches you added...
1181402548 M * SoftIce FaUl: but it also gives people info about your system with things like /ctcp version
1181402584 M * FaUl yea
1181402587 M * SoftIce FaUl: so i don't need to match anything or use anything  on the end of the kernel string
1181402600 M * FaUl that should generally be neo porbelm anyway
1181402614 M * FaUl Linux miniFaUl 2.6.21.3-suspend2-phc-0.2.10-hpet-hpet-force #4 PREEMPT Sat Jun 9 16:49:33 CEST 2007 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1700MHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
1181402628 M * FaUl thats what my system is currently
1181402640 M * SoftIce nice system
1181402650 M * FaUl notebook ;-)
1181402689 M * FaUl i'm currently getting nuts because it residents the most time in C2 instead of C3 and thus eating up battery
1181402707 M * FaUl at least if i am in X 
1181402709 M * SoftIce and whats the reason for that?
1181402715 M * FaUl i have no idea
1181402723 M * FaUl thats the problem
1181402724 M * FaUl ;-)
1181402733 M * SoftIce def not a kernel thing as you using the latest. 
1181402766 M * SoftIce FaUl: you tried messing with some systems like mandrivia or kubuntu or something ?
1181402774 M * SoftIce and seen if any of the patches they have fix it?
1181402810 M * FaUl nope
1181402821 M * FaUl i guess it is a kernel-thing
1181402828 M * FaUl i'll give 22 a try i guess
1181402848 M * SoftIce ye, for my notebook i just stuck a copy of ubuntu on it, and it ran lovely. 
1181402882 M * SoftIce whats your flavour of choice?
1181402888 M * FaUl it's gentoo heree
1181402958 M * FaUl anyaway have to go and buy something to eat as the shops are closing in a bit of time
1181402971 M * SoftIce take care, thanks for the pointers
1181404852 Q * ensc Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181406476 N * Bertl_oO Bertl
1181406483 M * Bertl back now ...
1181406591 M * meetra Bertl: hello!
1181406652 M * Bertl hmm, seems your client is doing strange things to my nick :)
1181406689 M * meetra yeah
1181406693 M * meetra sorry abou that
1181406705 M * meetra i've switched the syscall and tested it... i think it's okay because I don't get the same error starting vserver but:
1181406705 M * meetra vattribute: vc_set_ccaps(): Interrupted system call
1181406719 M * Bertl while I don't really mind, you should know that this way of writing it will not notify me of a new message addressed to me
1181406758 M * Bertl debug log (dmesg) and maybe strace?
1181406799 M * meetra wait a sec please :)
1181406866 M * meetra http://paste.linux-vserver.org/2442
1181406928 M * meetra http://paste.linux-vserver.org/2443
1181406998 M * meetra #define __NR_getrlimit 190
1181407042 M * Bertl again, this very much looks like an userspace issue
1181407056 M * Bertl you are calling VCMD_set_ccaps(v1)
1181407066 M * Bertl which is noted as VCMD_52_4[1]
1181407090 M * Bertl and it seems that executes quite fine inside the kernel
1181407100 M * Bertl and actually returns 0 (success)
1181407198 M * Bertl so no idea where the EINTR comes from ...
1181407222 M * Bertl you did succeed to compile vcmd?
1181407242 M * Bertl if so, let's try to issue the VCMD_set_ccaps with that
1181407273 M * meetra how? :=
1181407274 M * meetra :)
1181407285 M * Bertl vcmd -i <xid> -d -C set_ccaps .cmask=~0
1181407296 M * Bertl replace the <xid> with your context number
1181407307 M * Bertl (the context has to be running)
1181407320 M * meetra i can't start the vserver
1181407324 M * Bertl if you do not have a running context, you can simply create one with this:
1181407355 M * Bertl vcontext --create --xid 100 -- sleep 100 &
1181407362 M * Bertl vcmd -i 100 -d -C set_ccaps .cmask=~0
1181407413 M * meetra vcmd goes 100% cpu
1181407419 M * meetra strace it?
1181407429 M * Bertl yep, why not
1181407454 M * meetra http://paste.linux-vserver.org/2444
1181407508 M * Bertl well, doesn't seem that it reaches any syscall ...
1181407519 M * Bertl maybe use a debugger (gdb?) on it?
1181407551 M * meetra compiling (gentoo here...)
1181407561 M * Bertl np
1181407580 M * Bertl might be that the syscall wrapper is still wrong for ppc64
1181407599 M * Bertl are your tools using the alternative syscall stuff or the one from the libc?
1181407604 M * meetra you didn't have any problem with exec-ulimit? it seems that sys_old_getrlimit pointed to ni_syscall from the start
1181407631 M * Bertl meetra: as I said, I never tested userspace on ppc64 myself
1181407642 M * Bertl (simply because I do not have access to one :)
1181407668 M * meetra i'm using dietlibc
1181407689 M * Bertl could you upload the output of: 'vserver-info - SYSINFO' please?
1181407730 M * meetra http://paste.linux-vserver.org/2445
1181407735 M * Bertl tx
1181407761 M * Bertl daniel_hozac: alternative means shiny, yes?
1181407778 M * meetra well, I could give you access but I want to learn as well :P
1181407800 M * Bertl meetra: I'm perfectly fine with that, and I prefer no access as well
1181407821 M * meetra why?
1181407845 M * meetra well, okay
1181407862 M * Bertl for several reasons: first, security, second I think folks should understand what we are doing ...
1181407879 M * meetra cool :)
1181407892 M * Bertl third: I do not really want to bother with 'other' systems and their oddities :)
1181407938 M * meetra okay okay. let me get the gdb handbook :D
1181407939 M * Bertl and last but not least: you learn a lot by _not_ having access 
1181407971 M * Bertl not that hard, you run it with 'gdb vcmd' (no args)
1181407990 M * Bertl then you specify a breakpoint, and run it with 'r <args....>
1181408016 M * Bertl it helps a lot if you compile vcmd with -g -O2
1181408035 M * meetra i've compiled vcmd.debug
1181408043 M * Bertl which should have that
1181408064 M * meetra yeah
1181408087 M * meetra okay, breakpoint?
1181408129 M * Bertl well, somewhere before the syscall
1181408338 M * meetra erm, help :D
1181408511 M * Bertl sec, have to get the soruces first :)
1181408563 M * Bertl won't hurt to open the soruces yourself
1181408600 M * Bertl line 1121 here is right after skip_data
1181408615 M * Bertl so that would be a good place to set a breakpoint IMHO
1181408652 M * meetra i've never used gdb
1181408686 M * Bertl gdb vmcd
1181408717 M * Bertl gdb vmcd.debug (to be precise :)
1181408719 M * meetra (gdb) b 1121
1181408719 M * meetra No line 1121 in file "vcmd.c".
1181408740 M * Bertl (gdb) b 1121
1181408740 M * Bertl Breakpoint 1 at 0x8053dc5: file vcmd.c, line 1121.
1181408770 M * Bertl maybe your gcc/gdb is broken?
1181408811 M * meetra everything works fine here
1181408846 M * meetra i've compiled all the system without any problems
1181408878 M * Bertl well, double check that vcmd.c has a line 1121 :)
1181408900 M * meetra goto skip_syscall;
1181408913 M * Bertl if that is so, the problem must be somewhere in the toolchain, no?
1181408942 M * Bertl btw, gdb is broken on many archs, I would not be surprised if ppc64 was one of them
1181408966 M * meetra http://paste.linux-vserver.org/2446
1181408969 M * Bertl I already mentioned that yesterday, would it be possible to switch to a gcc-3.3.6 or so?
1181409016 M * Bertl and userspace is 64bit too, yes?
1181409053 M * Bertl you should remove the -fomit-frame-pointer for debugging
1181409070 M * meetra yes it is
1181409093 M * meetra i wasn't expecting to debug..
1181409267 M * meetra compiling dietlibc without fomit-blabla
1181409285 M * arachnist -fomit-frame-pointer doesn't prevent debugging on amd64 (afair it only prevents it on x86)
1181409314 M * Bertl correct, but it obfuscates the stack traces
1181409316 M * meetra 3.4.6? or less?
1181409329 M * Bertl 3.3.x would be nice
1181409556 J * meetra45 ~xtreme@bl6-155-92.dsl.telepac.pt
1181409911 M * meetra45 compiling, maybe i'm going to fsck my system but... :)
1181409940 M * Bertl hmm, gcc can coexist quite nicely in different versions
1181409964 M * Bertl e.g. I have here gcc 3.3.6, 4.0.3 and 4.1.2 installed
1181409975 M * meetra45 sure, but i've had to alter my profile to emerge.
1181409993 Q * meetra Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181409999 N * meetra45 meetra
1181410029 M * meetra then compile dietlibc and util-vserver? or more packages?
1181410067 M * Bertl let's try with vcmd first
1181410087 M * Bertl doesn't need dietlibc and should give some results
1181410286 M * meetra 3.3.x can't.. going 3.4.x
1181410300 M * Bertl hmm?
1181410321 M * meetra compiling errors
1181410334 M * Bertl when compiling gcc?
1181410338 M * meetra y
1181410341 M * Bertl that sounds interesting :)
1181410363 M * meetra /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/gcc-3.3.2-r7/work/gcc-3.3.2/gcc/read-rtl.c: In function 'read_rtx':
1181410363 M * meetra /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/gcc-3.3.2-r7/work/gcc-3.3.2/gcc/read-rtl.c:653: error: invalid lvalue in increment
1181410384 M * meetra it was marked stable a long time ago
1181410386 M * Bertl try 3.3.6 from gnu
1181410399 M * meetra the profile that I'm using doesn't allow <4.x
1181410453 M * Bertl well, then get the sources and compile them
1181410468 M * Bertl http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gcc/gcc-3.3.6/gcc-3.3.6.tar.bz2
1181410531 M * Bertl ah, 4.2.0 is out .. have to rebuild that one too :)
1181410776 M * waldi who wants gcc 3.3?
1181410794 M * Bertl me!
1181410826 M * waldi use 2.95!
1181410860 M * Bertl 2.95 was nice till 3.3.2 or so, then it was simply superceded
1181411060 M * meetra why use those old gccs?
1181411115 M * Bertl 4.0 was quite experimental (and buggy)
1181411133 M * Bertl 4.1 somewhat got better, but it is not what I really consider stable
1181411142 M * meetra it's being used in almost all distros
1181411164 M * Bertl except for sensitive stuff :)
1181411195 M * waldi 4.1 works pretty
1181411205 M * waldi 4.2 is more strict
1181411239 M * meetra /usr/include/bits/stdio.h: In function `getchar':
1181411239 M * meetra /usr/include/bits/stdio.h:43: error: syntax error before "__restrict__"
1181411241 M * meetra no dice
1181411306 M * Bertl so imho your system is borked .. I'm compiling all versions of gcc (even cross compiling for several archs) if that doesn't work, you should definitely replace your toolchain
1181411409 M * slacker101 back to making my custom distro
1181411421 M * waldi Bertl: no, this is not problem
1181411424 M * waldi err
1181411429 M * waldi s/problem/broken/
1181411437 M * slacker101 isn't slakware the best distro ever?
1181411446 M * sid3windr lol
1181411447 M * waldi the libc is part of the hosted c compiler
1181411468 M * waldi slacker101: built against 2.4 kernel headers? no
1181411484 M * meetra glibc-2.5 here
1181411490 M * sid3windr 2.0.33 ftw
1181411514 M * slacker101 slackware 11 rulezzzz
1181411528 A * sid3windr will refrain from any comments
1181411567 M * Bertl waldi: so you are trying to tell me that gcc-3.3.6 doesn't work on a libc 2.5?
1181411658 M * Bertl waldi: but you probably agree with me, that a gdb which claims that the source file doesn't have a certain line number is a little broken?
1181412003 M * meetra compiling gdb 6.4
1181412069 M * waldi Bertl: quite possible
1181412116 M * waldi Bertl: depends. there are some shortcomings in several debugging formats
1181412126 M * waldi so the informations may missing
1181412202 M * waldi also gdb needs access to exact the same sources
1181413279 M * meetra Bertl: it can read the vcmd.c
1181413290 M * meetra doing list shows me top of the main()
1181413398 M * Bertl where are you starting gdb?
1181413416 M * meetra gdb vcmd
1181413426 M * meetra if doing list... it gives me int main (blabla)
1181413429 M * Bertl pwd
1181413438 M * meetra b 1000 (works)
1181413442 M * meetra pwd is correct
1181413454 M * meetra Working directory /tmp/vcmd-0.08.
1181413459 M * Bertl okay, what about 1121 or nearby that?
1181413513 M * meetra 1050
1181413516 M * meetra 1100 doesn't work
1181413548 M * Bertl and this doesn't look broken to you? :)
1181413556 M * meetra the breakpoint y
1181413559 M * meetra list 1121 works
1181413565 M * meetra 1121 goto skip_syscall;
1181413569 M * Bertl let's try to recompile it with -O0 -g
1181413622 M * meetra No line 1121 in file "vcmd.c".
1181413626 M * meetra but list works
1181413649 M * Bertl what about line 1122 or 1120?
1181413695 M * meetra Breakpoint 5 at 0x100146a8: file vcmd.c, line 1054.
1181413700 M * meetra the highest number
1181413721 M * Bertl well, I doubt that you will get sensitive debug information past that line
1181413737 M * Bertl but try to single step to the syscall after 1120
1181413815 M * meetra okay, so... ?
1181413870 M * Bertl r -i 100 -d -C set_ccaps .cmask=~0
1181413881 M * Bertl (make sure that context 100 does exist, at this time)
1181413911 M * Bertl then repeat 's' until you reach 
1181413914 M * Bertl 1124		do_syscall(&vc_data);
1181413942 M * SoftIce hrm! ok based on harrys patch, if I build a kernel, what would the end extention attached to the kernel look like, see what my problem is, is once i use this stupid debian/ubuntu package settings it requires once using dpkg -i on the kernel-image it requires the modules what should be /lib/modules/ 2.6.19.7-grsec yet it set it as 2.6.19.7-grsec-grsec2.1.10-vs2.2.0 right. so i know i can symbolic link the 1 to the other but..
1181413946 M * SoftIce ok let met see where i am :D
1181413946 M * meetra (gdb) b 1050
1181413946 M * meetra Breakpoint 1 at 0x10014698: file vcmd.c, line 1050.
1181413946 M * meetra (gdb) r -i 100 -d -C set_ccaps .cmask=~0
1181413966 M * SoftIce right so now once using harrys patch and doing a build what would the ended kernel string look like 2.6.19....... ?
1181413993 M * SoftIce so I can make-kpkg --rootcmd fakeroot --initrd --append-to-version=-the-correct-ending-here .........
1181414002 M * SoftIce does that make sense ? :)
1181414008 M * Bertl SoftIce: no idea, but you can change that in the Makefile and the additional extraversion files
1181414021 M * meetra always that in the query
1181414055 M * SoftIce Bertl: so what caused it to get a wacky ending like what I pasted. 2.6.19.7-grsec-grsec2.1.10-vs2.2.0 ?
1181414071 M * SoftIce what caused the patch to make the kernel spit that out? as you said the editing to the Makefile ?
1181414202 M * Bertl no, IIRC, harry uses a newer mechanism for that
1181414262 M * SoftIce Bertl: so making a symbolic link to the modules shouldn't be an issue then? or should i try build it properly so it doesn't complain about anything?
1181414271 M * Bertl do you have a link to the patch?
1181414301 M * SoftIce http://people.linux-vserver.org/~harry/patch-2.6.19.7-vs2.2.0-grsec2.1.10-20070402.diff
1181414548 Q * dlezcano1 Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181414577 M * Bertl SoftIce: remove the file localversion-grsec
1181414592 M * Bertl SoftIce: edit the Makefile, and adjust EXTRAVERSION to whatever you like
1181414631 M * Bertl meetra: change the following line in vcmd.c
1181414635 M * Bertl         char c, errflg = 0;
1181414646 M * Bertl this is line 965, to
1181414652 M * meetra y
1181414655 M * Bertl         int c, errflg = 0;
1181414677 M * SoftIce Bertl: i'm impressed :) thank you
1181414696 M * meetra (gdb) b 1121
1181414696 M * meetra Breakpoint 1 at 0x10014d88: file vcmd.c, line 1121.
1181414698 M * meetra AH!
1181414714 M * Bertl okay, let's try the vcmd without gdb
1181414822 M * Bertl meetra: so vcmd succeeds with the command (pm)
1181414832 M * meetra yeah
1181414859 M * Bertl meetra: thus I would suggest to talk to daniel_hozac, we can try to figure what is going wrong with his help (in util-vserver/dietlibc)
1181414876 M * meetra i've to catch him online
1181414906 M * Bertl I'll be around for some time, daniel_hozac should show up in a few hours, I guess
1181414931 M * meetra hmm, hope that I'll be online as well
1181414975 M * SoftIce strange, daniel_hozac allways is normally on :D
1181414997 M * SoftIce Bertl: you think its allright to do away with initram ?
1181415031 M * Bertl SoftIce: well, if your distro/boot schema can handle that
1181415053 M * SoftIce any idea if debian requires it completely?
1181415096 J * dlezcano1 ~dlezcano1@AToulouse-252-1-4-48.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr
1181415134 M * Bertl wb dlezcano1!
1181415147 M * Bertl SoftIce: no idea, you have to ask debian folks about that
1181415242 M * Bertl waldi: do you know what libgomp is supposed to be?
1181415279 M * sid3windr it processes omages? :>
1181415303 M * SoftIce ok kewl, i just don't understand why it needs this "early userspace" issue with debian iniramfs is ove 3mb. 
1181415311 M * SoftIce initrams even
1181415323 M * sid3windr initramfs even
1181415357 M * Bertl SoftIce: #debian?
1181415370 M * SoftIce sid3windr :P
1181415596 M * waldi Bertl: hä?
1181415608 M * waldi libgomp1 - GCC OpenMP (GOMP) support library
1181415620 M * Bertl ah, tx!
1181415744 M * waldi hmm, do i want to convert this nfs server to iscsi $now or $later?
1181415795 M * sid3windr yes
1181415815 M * sid3windr I guess it depends on the content of the variables $now and $later 
1181415979 Q * meandtheshell Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181417018 J * phedny_ ~mark@ip56538143.direct-adsl.nl
1181417418 Q * phedny Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181417488 J * meandtheshell ~markus@85-124-207-255.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at
1181418724 Q * slacker101 Read error: Connection reset by peer
1181419002 J * slacker403 ~root@cpe-71-74-73-121.insight.res.rr.com
1181419035 M * slacker403 bin/  etc/  home/  lib/  opt/  root/  sbin/  usr/  var/
1181419040 M * slacker403 is that all i should have 
1181419053 M * slacker403 do i tar it ?
1181419297 M * Bertl I prefer to have /proc and /sys too as well as /dev :)
1181419313 M * slacker403 Bertl: wont it create it through ?
1181419319 M * sid3windr /tmp is handy too
1181419327 M * slacker403 aw for the skeleton method
1181419335 M * slacker403 thats all i need i think the rest will be created 
1181419386 M * slacker403 does it have ot be in tar ot a tgz ?
1181419397 M * Bertl doesn't matter, IIRC
1181419400 M * slacker403 does it matter if its not compressed ?
1181419411 M * slacker403 i will jus leave it in tar prolly be faster :)
1181419421 M * slacker403 im actually excited baout to hvae slackware 
1181419440 M * slacker403 on the guest
1181419449 M * slacker403 what i shoudl really do is put slackware on the host too
1181419454 M * slacker403 and compile the latest vserver
1181419468 M * slacker403 thats what i should really probably do 
1181419470 M * slacker403 hmmmm
1181419539 M * slacker403 i will wait till some money starts coming through before i do that :P more oney anyways 
1181419734 M * slacker403 ey quick question when i do tar -cvf distro.tar distrooo/
1181419749 M * slacker403 it makes the tar file 
1181419760 M * slacker403 but i dont want thier to be another directory
1181419772 M * mnemoc -C
1181419776 M * slacker403 tarfile -> distrooo -> bin etc etc etc 
1181419791 M * slacker403 mnemoc: you know what im saying ?
1181419843 M * mnemoc i assuume you want to not pack the "prefix path"
1181419850 M * slacker403 yes
1181419859 M * slacker403 i want whats inside the derectory not the directory too
1181419876 M * mnemoc tar -C /foo/distroo -cvf ditro.tar .
1181419897 Q * onox Quit: leaving
1181419978 M * slacker403 tar -C linuxdistro/ -cvf distrooo1.tar
1181419982 M * slacker403 mnemoc: doesnt work :P
1181420042 M * mnemoc you are missing the dot
1181420068 M * slacker403 wow what the hell 
1181420072 M * slacker403 whats the dot do ?
1181420074 M * slacker403 worked btw 
1181420098 M * mnemoc tell tar what to pack?
1181420136 M * slacker403 yea well thanks ........ i didnt want to do tar bin/ ere/ ere/ by hand 
1181420159 M * sid3windr how about * :p
1181420195 Q * slacker403 Read error: Connection reset by peer
1181420214 M * mnemoc sid3windr: * will be expanded by the shell at the active folder when tar was called
1181420231 M * sid3windr indeed
1181420235 M * mnemoc and \* doesn't help because tar doesn't handle wildcards anymore
1181420244 M * sid3windr what's wrong with it being expanded by the shell?
1181420250 M * sid3windr he wants to pack up the entire directory into a tar
1181420251 M * sid3windr :p
1181420264 M * mnemoc he wants to pack up another directory
1181420268 M * sid3windr as in -always just these bin etc home lib opt root sbin usr var-
1181420284 J * slacker403 ~root@cpe-71-74-73-121.insight.res.rr.com
1181420288 M * mnemoc well... it's easier to use * and give a path to the file
1181420316 M * mnemoc but if you want to run tar from a different path you can use -C
1181420322 M * sid3windr yes
1181420326 M * sid3windr but now . is used
1181420333 M * sid3windr . and * are synonymous except for the .* files
1181420337 M * sid3windr no? :)
1181420347 M * mnemoc . is "current directory"
1181420357 M * mnemoc i mean, the name of a folder which is the current folder
1181420385 A * mnemoc needs more coffee :\
1181420446 M * slacker403 how far behind of version do i have ?
1181420462 M * mnemoc what?
1181420508 M * slacker403 sorry
1181420512 M * sid3windr mnemoc: yes, but that folder name is stored in tar as "."
1181420527 M * sid3windr so if you do * you get the same effect :]
1181420540 M * slacker403 2.6.18-4-vserver-686 
1181420544 M * slacker403 how far behind is this ?
1181420547 M * mnemoc using -C the * dones not work
1181420586 M * mnemoc to get the same effect you you would need to do a tricky $( cd foo; ls -1d * )
1181420630 M * mnemoc or \* if your tar support wildcards
1181420639 M * slacker403 mnemoc: lmao you use server4you ?
1181420718 M * mnemoc slacker403: i have some servers there, including the one where i have a guest i use as "shell box"
1181420742 M * slacker403 yea i know them
1181420748 M * slacker403 quite well actually
1181420760 M * mnemoc do you work there?
1181420763 M * slacker403 servers are good support is terrible 
1181420791 M * slacker403 but i got thier emails n stuff now so they get back to me pretty quick if i ever need something
1181420810 M * mnemoc :)
1181420814 M * slacker403 i used them for a few servers a while back and still got a few 
1181420838 M * slacker403 you in europe or us ?
1181420845 A * mnemoc loves hetzner, but some times i can't affort the installation fee :(
1181420849 M * mnemoc slacker403: .cl
1181420856 M * slacker403 cl ? :P
1181420870 M * mnemoc research ,-)
1181420890 M * slacker403 chile ?
1181420916 M * mnemoc yup
1181420925 M * slacker403 ah
1181420931 M * slacker403 never went there 
1181420947 M * slacker403 i am from brazil kinda close 
1181420964 M * mnemoc it's pretty fun to install custom OSs remoetly on the DC which such a great support :p
1181420988 M * mnemoc slacker403: i have never been in .br ,-)
1181420993 M * slacker403 well server4you does have a recovery system that allows to install whatever base distro you want 
1181421007 M * slacker403 ive been out since i was a teenage i go back quite a bit 
1181421024 M * mnemoc 32bits recovery system on 64 bits machines :\
1181421032 M * slacker403 its good but im glad i dont live there anymore 
1181421060 M * slacker403 i dont like the pattern in south america at the moment 
1181421104 M * slacker403 mnemoc: but ive heard chile is a nice place 
1181421116 M * mnemoc slacker403: not bad
1181421120 J * Johnnie ~jdlewis@c-67-163-247-109.hsd1.pa.comcast.net
1181421135 M * slacker403 jus to much poverty 
1181421139 M * Bertl wb Johnnie!
1181421153 M * mnemoc slacker403: less than .br ,-)
1181421156 M * slacker403 south america needs money not communisim ;)
1181421161 M * slacker403 oh yea im sure 
1181421182 M * slacker403 but also cities in brazil are as good and safe as european cities and other well bad as african 
1181421189 M * mnemoc we have the money, but all gets stolen :\
1181421192 M * slacker403 lol
1181421194 M * slacker403 i mean
1181421202 M * slacker403 like Hugo Chavez Castro Lula
1181421215 M * slacker403 Bolivia now 
1181421246 M * slacker403 these places need jobs money opportunity not communisim where everything is ran by the state ;)
1181421309 M * mnemoc are you brazilian or german living in .br?
1181421321 M * slacker403 lol no not a german ;) you crazy 
1181421327 M * mnemoc :)
1181421333 M * slacker403 :P
1181421338 M * slacker403 no offense to any germans ;)
1181421341 M * slacker403 but no
1181421349 M * slacker403 I was born in brazil to french parents 
1181421357 M * slacker403 and moved to miami Florida usa 
1181421361 M * slacker403 south eastern tip 
1181421392 M * slacker403 mnemoc: you german ?
1181421420 M * mnemoc nope, chilean
1181421436 M * mnemoc but as you spoke about server4you and "living there" i wondered
1181421453 M * slacker403 the us brand of server4you
1181421456 M * slacker403 branch
1181421465 M * slacker403 they have a usa brand as well
1181421469 M * slacker403 in st louis 
1181421482 M * mnemoc .com.... expensive, and worse hardware
1181421492 M * slacker403 i get a good deal
1181421508 M * slacker403 they upgraded their hardware recently
1181421514 M * slacker403 p4 3 ghz etc
1181421539 Q * Guy- Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181421556 M * mnemoc they had celeron boxes for hundred dollars last year
1181421567 M * slacker403 nonno
1181421578 M * slacker403 70.00 p4 2 GB ram 
1181421658 M * mnemoc dell?
1181421663 M * slacker403 yes
1181421685 M * slacker403 they upgraded the datacenter recently
1181421716 M * mnemoc :)
1181421737 M * mnemoc afaics they still have bandwidth limits
1181421744 M * slacker403 my air conditioner broke :(
1181421750 M * slacker403 remember i get good deal
1181421753 M * slacker403 5 TB's 
1181421765 M * slacker403 and after that its 2.00 per 50 GB
1181421777 M * mnemoc not bad
1181421785 M * slacker403 the people i have on that box havent even used 50 GB yet 
1181421792 M * slacker403 i am talking USD right now 
1181421812 M * mnemoc i know
1181421992 M * slacker403 mnemoc: what distro you use ?
1181421998 M * slacker403 ive tried so many 
1181422008 M * slacker403 but i always come back and use the master of them all 
1181422010 Q * arachnist Read error: Connection reset by peer
1181422052 M * mnemoc i have not used "main stream" distributions since 2001
1181422080 M * slacker403 ah
1181422089 M * slacker403 ive been using slackware from square one 
1181422204 J * arachnist arachnist@088156189068.who.vectranet.pl
1181422308 M * mnemoc slacker403: opensde.org <-- my project
1181422431 M * Bertl mnemoc: ah, so you parted from T2?
1181422451 M * mnemoc Bertl: one year ago
1181422456 J * Aiken ~james@ppp121-45-236-229.lns1.bne4.internode.on.net
1181422466 M * Bertl mnemoc: kind of completely missed that one ...
1181422490 M * Bertl mnemoc: rene is continuing with rock?
1181422504 M * mnemoc Bertl: rene is on T2
1181422578 M * Bertl okay, so clifford is doing rock, rene T2 and you openSDE, right?
1181422583 M * mnemoc :D
1181422584 M * mnemoc yeah
1181422593 M * Bertl okay, thanks for the clarifications :)
1181422620 M * mnemoc :)
1181422631 M * Bertl can openSDE cross build distros?
1181422632 M * mnemoc i assume you know clifford personally
1181422642 M * mnemoc yes
1181422650 M * Bertl of course, he is, kind of, located nearby :)
1181422656 M * mnemoc :)
1181422695 M * mnemoc daja77 and fake are there too afaik
1181422697 M * Bertl okay, so, let's assume, I would want to 'build' a minimalistic distro for use in testing (in QEMU for example), how would I go about that?
1181422733 M * Bertl (or is openSDE the wrong tool for that purpose?)
1181422740 M * mnemoc no, perfect :)
1181422775 M * mnemoc i'm reworking udev integration currently but in general is pretty solid
1181422778 M * Bertl then let's hear the ugly details ...
1181422843 M * mnemoc nothing that ugly
1181422859 M * mnemoc :)
1181422879 M * Bertl okay, how would I go about that then?
1181422904 M * mnemoc svn co svn://svn.opensde.net/opensde/trunk :)
1181422911 M * mnemoc err
1181422918 M * mnemoc svn co svn://svn.opensde.net/opensde/opensde/trunk
1181422926 M * mnemoc i forgot one level of self reference
1181422966 M * Bertl svn: Unknown hostname 'svn.opensde.net'
1181422981 M * Bertl let's take org?
1181422993 M * mnemoc weird
1181422994 M * mnemoc $ dnsip svn.opensde.net
1181422995 M * mnemoc 85.25.10.130
1181423026 M * Bertl okay, I took the ip
1181423035 M * mnemoc :)
1181423308 Q * FireEgl Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181423338 M * mnemoc the user interface (of the kit) is going from the rock-style ./scripts/* to a "user friendly" `sde` front end wrapper, but still work in progress.. so it's a bit inconsistent currently :(
1181423373 M * Bertl okay, I have rev 21294, now what?
1181423391 M * mnemoc do you have $HOME/bin on your path ?
1181423393 M * mnemoc PATH*
1181423401 M * Bertl probably not, sec
1181423409 M * Bertl nope
1181423410 M * mnemoc no problem
1181423422 M * mnemoc ./scripts/Config -cfg something
1181423434 M * Bertl and what's something?
1181423441 M * mnemoc the name for your build
1181423447 M * Bertl okay
1181423509 M * mnemoc there choose "generic" target (distribution) and "minimal" template
1181423518 M * mnemoc then the architecture
1181423551 M * Bertl what would be 'Generic embedded?
1181423565 M * mnemoc it's kind of abandoned :(
1181423590 M * mnemoc it's a target which gives you a dietlibc based base system
1181423601 M * Bertl aha, sounds nice :)
1181423607 M * mnemoc yes, it is
1181423646 M * mnemoc but i'm not sure if it works today... if not it has to be fixed, but the TODO has too much stuff :(
1181423647 M * Bertl but it doesn't work right now, or?
1181423651 M * mnemoc not sure
1181423658 M * Bertl ok, np, we go for generic
1181423660 M * mnemoc i have not tried it in 2-3 months
1181423688 M * Bertl what's the Install CD/ disks vs Initial ramdisk?
1181423690 M * mnemoc yes, as a first experience please try generic/minimal
1181423726 M * mnemoc after the build is finished it gets "bundled" based on which output format did you choose
1181423757 M * mnemoc the install will give you an iso with installer
1181423760 M * Bertl is initrd (or is that really initramfs?) working?
1181423768 M * mnemoc Initial ramdisk will try to pack it inside a cpio.gz file
1181423778 M * mnemoc initramfs
1181423790 M * mnemoc it works
1181423795 M * mnemoc by vservver target use that one
1181423795 M * Bertl so initramfs, great! and that could be used for a kernel out of the box, yes?
1181423797 M * slacker403 hmmmm
1181423804 M * mnemoc but minimal doesn't "fit" well there
1181423808 M * slacker403 slackware PWNS
1181423813 M * mnemoc minimal is not really minimal
1181423829 M * Bertl what about live CD?
1181423857 M * Bertl install CD sounds like I have to install it, but I'd prefer to boot with it :)
1181423863 M * mnemoc i's all you need to run the opensde toolkit, so it's a development env
1181423868 M * Bertl i.e. to boot right into the new distro
1181423876 M * mnemoc livecd is like initrd but on an iso
1181423881 M * mnemoc so there is more room
1181423886 M * Bertl okay, should do the trick then
1181423918 M * Bertl mips is supposed working?
1181423938 M * mnemoc no hardware to test it :(
1181423948 M * Bertl you got QEMU!
1181423963 M * Bertl what is tested?
1181423989 M * mnemoc x86 and x86_64.. :p
1181424000 M * Bertl hehe, not even sparc?
1181424009 M * mnemoc we don't have much human resources :\
1181424022 M * Bertl okay, let's try mips then ... 
1181424057 M * mnemoc it would be really great if you can help us to get mips working again
1181424080 M * Bertl I have to check the crossbuild option, yes?
1181424088 M * mnemoc yes
1181424100 M * mnemoc the build is done in 9 stages
1181424107 M * Bertl anything else I should check/select?
1181424127 M * mnemoc ccache is useful
1181424150 M * Bertl okay, it says, configuration finished, what now?
1181424163 M * mnemoc stage 0 is done using what the host has, stage 1 is cross compiled, since stage 2 to 8 inside chroot
1181424175 M * mnemoc ./bin/sde get -cfg something -required
1181424208 M * mnemoc ./bin/sde install will place it on $HOME/bin, but as you don't have it on your PATH it doesn't help
1181424224 M * Bertl np with that ./bin is fine :)
1181424245 M * Bertl okay, that will take a little now, I guess :)
1181424282 M * mnemoc on another tty you can start the build
1181424293 M * mnemoc ./scripts/Build-Target -cfg something
1181424311 M * Bertl if that works out for x86 (which I will test if mips fails :) would you be interested in supporting a QEMU minimalistic config for testing in the future?
1181424323 M * mnemoc of course
1181424330 M * Bertl because in this case, I would do the testing for all QEMU archs
1181424346 M * mnemoc take a look on target/*/
1181424350 M * Bertl and of course, the error reporting, but only trivial fixes ...
1181424361 M * mnemoc there is were the "distributions" are defined, and you can defined your test distro there
1181424378 M * mnemoc and build it for the archs you want
1181424399 M * mnemoc Bertl: that would be a great help ):
1181424402 M * mnemoc err
1181424406 M * mnemoc :)
1181424415 M * Bertl the build can run in parallel to the get?
1181424416 A * mnemoc spank his fingers
1181424428 M * mnemoc make -j style
1181424442 M * Bertl ah, nice, same line just s/get/build/?
1181424446 M * mnemoc packages in parallel is not yet implement
1181424480 M * mnemoc Bertl: not yet, ./scripts/Build-Target -cfg something
1181424485 M * Bertl ah, no sorry, saw the line
1181424486 M * mnemoc but it will be sde build
1181424494 M * mnemoc and sde config
1181424502 Q * bon Remote host closed the connection
1181424507 J * bon ~bon@lamer.sk
1181424507 M * mnemoc just udev got priority over the CLI
1181424825 M * slacker403 is ther any documentation anywhere about installing .tar manaully and not using a repos to pul the files from ??
1181424845 J * ensc ~irc-ensc@p54B4DE30.dip.t-dialin.net
1181424861 M * mnemoc slacker403: tar -xf ?
1181424875 M * slacker403 i meant installing the tar on a vserver
1181424883 M * slacker403 ccreating a vserver with my tar :P
1181424964 M * mnemoc vserver '$server' build -m skeleton --initstyle plain
1181424971 M * mnemoc and then tar -xf :)
1181425061 M * slacker403 i mean sitner their a way like 
1181425089 M * slacker403 vserver create hostname ip init style distro.tar ?
1181425133 M * Bertl vserver - build --help
1181425150 M * Bertl check out the template build method
1181425221 M * Bertl mnemoc: hmm, build bails out with: /lib64/libc.so.6: file not recognized: File format not recognized
1181425260 M * mnemoc uh
1181425318 M * mnemoc Bertl: paste please :(
1181425350 M * Bertl http://paste.linux-vserver.org/2451
1181425367 M * slacker403 Bertl: where can i see examples of this etc ?
1181425372 M * Bertl mnemoc: fist and third line got switched
1181425377 M * mnemoc btw, to help debugging please vi config/something/config and change the XTRACE to 1
1181425393 M * mnemoc weird
1181425430 M * Bertl same with SDECFG_XTRACE='1'
1181425444 M * mnemoc yes, your error is much earlier
1181425545 M * mnemoc Bertl: that is scripts/Build-Tools:108, which is a pretty simple gcc call :\
1181425582 M * Bertl seems that is not really your fault
1181425597 M * Bertl the package insisted in ahving a static glibc
1181425632 M * Bertl give me a few minutes to sort this out
1181427724 J * FireEgl FireEgl@4.0.0.0.1.0.0.0.c.d.4.8.0.c.5.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa
1181429975 M * slacker403 Bertl: should i get the new version of vserver like compile a new one or should i jus stick with what i got for now ?
1181430377 M * Bertl if whatever you have works for you, and you do not need new functionality, why would you change it
1181430420 M * Bertl mnemoc: okay, issue resolved ...
1181430436 M * Bertl (had nothing to do with your stuff)
1181430443 M * mnemoc :)
1181430454 Q * derjohn Ping timeout: 480 seconds
1181430469 J * derjohn ~derjohn@dslb-084-058-207-196.pools.arcor-ip.net
1181430625 M * Bertl mnemoc: okay, here comes the first error: http://paste.linux-vserver.org/2452
1181430722 M * mnemoc that was fast :(
1181430747 M * mnemoc unset TMPDIR please :(
1181430771 M * Bertl set it to /tmp ? or what?
1181430782 M * mnemoc yes, /tmp is the expected location
1181430817 M * Bertl env TMPDIR points to ~/tmp atm
1181430837 M * mnemoc !> fl_wrapper.so: write outside basedir (/opt/trunk): /root/tmp/tmp.lpQTEZ9326
1181430855 M * mnemoc the write was blocked to "save" your host
1181430870 M * Bertl i.c. soo .. /tmp will fail too, no?
1181430877 M * mnemoc no, /tmp is ok
1181430885 M * Bertl k, let me try ..
1181430893 M * mnemoc that's an accepted "exception"
1181431135 M * Bertl !> checking sysdep dirs... configure: error: The mipsel is not supported.
1181431150 M * Bertl == 19:20:15 =[0]=> Building base/glibc [2.5 trunk].
1181431165 M * mnemoc outch
1181431184 M * Bertl let me ask, are there patches for glibc/etc for the various archs?
1181431199 M * Bertl (in your distro build system that is)
1181431234 M * mnemoc glibc-ports-2.5.tar.bz2 is been extracted ... maybe on the wrong location :\
1181431271 M * mnemoc package/base/glibc/glibc.conf:89
1181431281 M * mnemoc but it doesn't look ok
1181431345 M * Bertl okay, how to proceed there?
1181431395 M * mnemoc the glibc maintainer is with "depression" so it's not very effective to ask him to check :\
1181431420 M * mnemoc Bertl: maybe you want to look at package/base/glibc/glibc.conf:87? please :)
1181431434 M * mnemoc i have my head on a very distant place currently
1181431443 M * mnemoc and i have a meeting with a customer in 30m
1181431448 M * mnemoc :(
1181431454 M * Bertl glibc_prepatch() {
1181431478 M * mnemoc Bertl: and/or file a ticket in trac.opensde.org :(
1181431507 M * mnemoc yes, taht function is in charge of extracting ports, libidn and linuxthreads over the already extarcted glibc
1181431514 M * Bertl okay, I'll try with a different arch for now ... but let's continue that when you have some time
1181431527 M * mnemoc ok :)